Snakes - vaccinating and breaking?

[Stilly bay]

part 1 -since were on the subject of creepy crawlers I would like to know everyone's thoughts on rattle snake vaccines.

 my vet talked me out of them last year because the side effects can cause more problems than the bite and the vaccine seems to have a hit or miss record with effectiveness - or limits the damage at best... so I went east and worried about snakes constantly.

whats the average price of a snake vaccine?

part 2 - are there any snake breaking clinics coming up?

[Maligator]

- are there any snake breaking clinics coming up?

What's a snake breaking clinic? Is that where they catch them to be milked for venom? 

[Don Fischer]

No, it's a program where you take the dog to a snake you put down for it and soon as it give's an indication of the snake you punish it hard. I believe it's kept up until the dog balks really hard soon as it notices the snake. I've had a dog bit once. Scared me pretty good and the dog spent the day at my vet. Think it was him coming on the snake by surprise and getting bit.  My understanding is that most snake bite's are done with the dog unaware of the snake. My old shorthair used to point the things, any snake. Only pointed a rattle snake once. Generally I used to avoid areas where I knew there were snakes and just start my season after they go down.

[jetjockey]

Down here is GA a lot of people snake break their dogs because we have a ton of the  ba$#€%ds.  The problem is, like Don said, it doesn't do any good unless the dog knows the snake is there, which most times they don't.  The vaccines supposedly only work with one or two types of venom well, and down her we have something like 7 or 8 different types of poisonous snakes.  The easiest way to keep a dog safe from snakes is to wait until they to away for the winter.  Down here, 1 or 2 good freezes and cooler afternoon temps usually does the trick.  Unfortunately that doesn't usually happen until mid Nov to early Dec.  But our quail season runs until the end of February. 

[AspenBud]

If I remember correctly...

The vaccine is effective to a point with most varieties of rattlesnake in the country. The big exception being the eastern diamond back at last count. I think it's supposed to be most effective against western diamond back venom, but it provides some protection against the northern pacifics that we have here as well as prairie rattlers further east.

Basically what it's good for is helping fight the allergic reaction that comes with bites, or rather, what more often than not kills dogs when bit. It will not however stop tissue damage from a bite.

I know of a vet out in the Midwest who uses the stuff on his setters every time he heads to SD or ND. But his dogs are not snake broke either.

[boneaddict]

Not a dog owner, but as a scientist I'd suggest training over vaccination.   The necrotizing enzyme is going to do its damage, vaccination or not.   It may prevent or assist in preventing anaphylaxis or DIC, but it sure isn't going to stop all the damage.  Best that you can hope for is avoidance, or a dry bite and I wouldn't want to put my chips down on the latter.   

[bearpaw]

We don't have a lot of rattlesnakes in NE WA, but I had a hound that got bit several years ago, her leg got huge fast and she nearly died, can't remember what the vet did for her exactly, but after several months she was practically as good as new, although she always had a small permanent swelling where she was bitten even years afterward. If you are hunting in heavily infested snake country it seems it would be good to break hunting dogs off snakes.

[KopperBuck]

I'd go the break route. I have an uncle that does in SE OR.

I've been talked out of the vaccination by my pops, who's a vet. My fiance got talked out of it when she went in a few years back. We have them on this end of the valley, so I'm back to being worried about it again, especially with a pup running around.

Seen this guy on the road this weekend, haven't seen any of his nastier cousins yet. He was right at 3ft.

[Stilly bay]

so is any one putting on a snake breaking clinic? Rent a Rattler?

it seems like for every person I talk to that is for the vaccine there is one against it. it seems like the extra insurance would be worth the peace of mind... but then you have to stress about side effects or permanent damage.

of course as a Westside flatlander I am preoccupied about the possibility rattlesnakes being any where and every where east of the mountains... Do they make Grizzly bear and Wolf vaccines too?

[AspenBud]

The problem with the vaccine is it's the most likely to cause a reaction of all the vaccines out there. If you get it for your dog, have the vet give it in the morning and wait 30-60 minutes afterwards. Nothing worse than getting a vaccine at 5:00 PM only to have to make an expensive trip to an emergency vet after hours because of a reaction.

As others have already said, snake breaking is your best defense as is trying to avoid snaky areas. But as has also been said, being a hunting dog is a dangerous occupation, a fast moving pointer may still unknowingly run over one and get bit...

[10Key]

Your paranoia regarding buzz-worms is not baseless. I grew up on Tri-Cities and bank fished extensively there from age 5 to 30, only ever ran into one rattler and that was on the Snake River. Now fast forward a decade or so, I now bird-hunt over a dog, mostly in EWA. In three seasons of dog hunting, I have seen more rattlers than the previous thirty years. All in various locations from Ellensburg, to Chelan, to the Palouse, to the Yaki Training grounds. They are out there, it is a hazard of the hobby. My "vaccine" this year is to shy away from hunting the lowlands of EWA in the early season. I will be sticking to grouse in the high country until we see some consistent cold weather on the east side.

so is any one putting on a snake breaking clinic? Rent a Rattler?

it seems like for every person I talk to that is for the vaccine there is one against it. it seems like the extra insurance would be worth the peace of mind... but then you have to stress about side effects or permanent damage.

of course as a Westside flatlander I am preoccupied about the possibility rattlesnakes being any where and every where east of the mountains... Do they make Grizzly bear and Wolf vaccines too?

[Bluemoon]

"The problem with the vaccine is it's the most likely to cause a reaction of all the vaccines out there. If you get it for your dog, have the vet give it in the morning and wait 30-60 minutes afterwards. Nothing worse than getting a vaccine at 5:00 PM only to have to make an expensive trip to an emergency vet after hours because of a reaction."


Where did you get this information?  I am a big fan of the Vaccine, in the past 6 years I have given it to well over 30 dogs and have never seen a reaction.  For $22.00 a shot it is very cheap insurance against the $900.00 plus a vile for the anti venom you will need without them.       

[AspenBud]

"The problem with the vaccine is it's the most likely to cause a reaction of all the vaccines out there. If you get it for your dog, have the vet give it in the morning and wait 30-60 minutes afterwards. Nothing worse than getting a vaccine at 5:00 PM only to have to make an expensive trip to an emergency vet after hours because of a reaction."


Where did you get this information?  I am a big fan of the Vaccine, in the past 6 years I have given it to well over 30 dogs and have never seen a reaction.         

The vet I referenced earlier in this thread. According to him the reactions run the gamut from a small swollen spot at the point of injection to more severe reactions.

For the record, he says he has never had a reaction in his dogs either.

Even with the vaccine a dog is making a trip to the vet in the event of a bite. Or should at least...

[AspenBud]

This is a cross post from a different forum regarding the snake vaccine, but I think it's important to note some things from it.

1. A DVM on there mentions the fact that his brother's lab died after a bite even with the vaccine.
2. A field trialer on there mentions vaccinating multiple dogs and having them get nasty reactions at the point of injection.

http://www.michiganwaterfowl.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2031268

If I were hunting my dogs in snake country at a time of year when they are active I would use the stuff, but I would probably also snake break my dogs before venturing into such areas too.

[wildweeds]

My buddy an older gentleman in his 80's vaccinates his pointers,he hunts eastern montana in an area with rattlers,he's had a vaccinated dog bitten,a night at the vets for observation and hunting the next day with no ill effects.This man has hunted in alot of territory,georgia,alabama,tennesee,texas,arizona,washington,california.A carrerr retired army man he hunted where he was stationed.No problems with ill effects at the vaccination poiint.

My trainer has run dogs for 30 years and has vaccinated none and only had 2 bitten by snakes that would have been bitten even if they were snake broke.He considers snake breaking a rip off and will have nothing to do with it.As most dogs get bit on the fly by while hunting.

My hound connection moved to arizona and had every one of his cat dogs bit by snakes in his yard,being a true hound guy he did not take a single one to the vet and did his own vetting,all survived with a heavy dose of benedryl.He told me one bitch was never the same and expired early at 7 years old which he attributed to the snake bite a couple years before.

I hate snakes myself and just hold on for cold weather,I've seen 2 in my birdhunting endeavors,they were slow moving and I left them be and did not diagnose whether they were rattler or bull.

I've had several dogs have reactions to shots for parvo/distemper/coronovirus because of these reactions does that mean that I should not vaccinate at all?