Mystery calf killing up Twisp, Wa

[WAcoyotehunter]

It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one. 

It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf???  Why?

[Taco280AI]

They are hoping the state will actually acknowledge wolves killed it

[bullchaser]

It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one. 

It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf???  Why?

Really?  the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.

[WAcoyotehunter]

They were looking for the honest answer.  It doesn't sound at all like they are trying to deny anything.

[MtnMuley]

It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one. 

It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf???  Why?

Really?  the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.

You're dealing with a guy that's too ignorant to argue against his fellow biologists.  Sad if you ask me, because he seems like a wealth of information and knowledge, but too stubborn to call a spade a spade.

[Northway]

It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one. 

It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf???  Why?

Really?  the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.

It was "clearly" a wolf? It sounds to me like the only ones who have seen the evidence first hand are the WDFW personnel and the rancher. It must be a lot of fun to do a job where if you don't blame a wolf for every calf carcass you get called to, you're a liar with an agenda and worthy of all sorts of slander.

I'm willing to acknowledge that the WDFW will not get it right every time; that there will be calves killed by wolves that are not determined to be wolf kills. But a man/woman who may take their job quite seriously shouldn't be condemned based on conjecture and hearsay.

Those folks don't make enough money to be run through the ringer because people are frustrated that we ended up with a flawed wolf plan.

[villageidiot]

It appears that since the calf was alive, was killed by something, it was not a cougar or bear then it was yotes or wolves.  Since yotes weigh about 30 lbs and there was about 40 lbs of carcass eaten it would take at a minimum 4 very hungry yotes to eat the calf.   I lean toward Honey Badger or maybe even Bigfoot.  Although I do believe a bigfoot would of taken it back to his den to consume the whole thing.  The Lookout Pack is blamed for lots of carnage and they are actually very sweet critters and eat lots of grasshoppers, voles and gophers.  Look at that big fuzzy picture of the big one.  How could that nice fuzzy wolfie do harm to an innocent little calf?     Bigfoot for sure!

[WAcoyotehunter]

It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one. 

It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf???  Why?

Really?  the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.

You're dealing with a guy that's too ignorant to argue against his fellow biologists.  Sad if you ask me, because he seems like a wealth of information and knowledge, but too stubborn to call a spade a spade.

Which guy are you talking about MtnMuley?

[snowpack]

How many calves has this rancher lost to any predation in his history of ranching? 

[JLS]

It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one. 

It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf???  Why?

Really?  the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.

Kind of making assumptions aren't you?  You want WDFW to be objective, but the pitchfork crowd here sure isn't.

[bullchaser]

What

It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one. 

It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf???  Why?

Really?  the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.

Whateaver you guys are eintitled to your own opinion although My opinion is that this kind of ridiculous questioning of the facts has led to the massive decline of the Ungulate populations in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. why not add us to the list?

[wolfbait]

I helped this rancher scout his calf kill, and I have been on several wolf kills in the last five years.  In my opinion this was a wolf kill, the pile of wolf chit was the clencher.

Now lets look at WDFW's history in confirming wolf killed livestock: You have just seen the Golden Doe cow, that cow had a new calf on her. Why didn't WDFW or the USFWS mention this when they ran to the papers and conservation NW with their BS story?

Bernard therlow saw the wolves that killed his calf and chewed up a few more, WDFW went with probable.

John Stevie had his dog mauled by a wolf and WDFW wanted to go with cougar, and then the news hit the net. They then called John and told him they would pay his vet bills, until it hit the net, and they had to back pedal.


Wolf kill fails to placate Washington rancher
August 9, 2012

"They distort facts so much, they've lied to us continually on this thing," he said. "First they said there was no wolves in the area. We showed them that there was. Then they said there might be wolves, but they'll never eat a cow. We showed them that they did."

McIrvin said wolf activity has been escalating. Last year 11 calves and five bulls were killed, he said. He will tally how many have been killed this year in the fall.
http://www.bluemountaineagle.com/news/state_national/wolf-kill-fails-to-placate-washington-rancher/article_f9b7ebce-e264-11e1-811c-0019bb2963f4.html?mode=print
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Ross Hurd, the rancher who owns the cattle with his two brothers, said he disagrees with the agency's conclusions. He said the agency's iunvestigators talked about the path of the struggle over some 30 yards, and the disturbed ground, and the bloody wound on the back of the cow's neck. He also said he understands that the agency needs specific evidence to confirm it was a wolf kill, but he doesn't understand how the agency can conclude a wolf did not kill his cow.  http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2013/mar/28/wolves-didnt-kill-cow-state-says/

The only time WA hears about wolf kills is when the public exposes them.

And then there's Scott Fitkin and his glowing deer reports, which equals firestarter or toilet paper. This year if ten hunters show up and kill six bucks, Fitkin will lope to the local paper and say deer season was a success for the amount of hunters that showed up. Welcome to WDFW.  WDF&Wolves

[villageidiot]

Snowpack,   I quizzed the rancher on how many animals he's lost in the past.  Here's his list.  Aprox. 1980 a coyote killed a sheep which he caught and killed.  Aprox 1998 a cougar killed 6 calves in his corral.  No hound hunting was allowed at that time so the cougar was never caught by WDFW (they tried a trap, no success).  Aprox. 2000 a bear killed a 600 lbs. steer and he hunted it down and killed the bear. Aprox. 1999 a cougar killed one of his dogs. Cougar never caught.  2007 wolves killed a calf plus one of his dogs, he informed the feds but they didn't believe him because they said we don't have wolves.  He has lost a few pigs from neighbor dogs, so shot the dogs.  He losses a few chickens every year to hawks, eagles and owls and bobcats.  He's never been compensated for anything but usually is allowed to shoot the vermin except for hawks, owls and eagles and now wolves.   Seems he's done his part in feeding the planets animals with his own nickel.

[snowpack]

Thanks for the follow up VI.  I was curious in a way because it seems like there have been quite a few wolf kills in that area in recent news...kind of like ranchers lose a few critters here and there over time, but recently it seems like something is taking more than a few.  In the past, didn't hear about as many animals being lost.   Also, since he's lost critters to other predators he probably has a good idea what each of the other predators' kills look like.

[wolfbait]

Thanks for the follow up VI.  I was curious in a way because it seems like there have been quite a few wolf kills in that area in recent news...kind of like ranchers lose a few critters here and there over time, but recently it seems like something is taking more than a few.  In the past, didn't hear about as many animals being lost.   Also, since he's lost critters to other predators he probably has a good idea what each of the other predators' kills look like.

In the past there was more prey for wolves, we are seeing the last of our deer killed along county roads and close to home on the valley floor. I'm sure everyone knows of the spring deer migration, where deer head for the high country. Last year it was barely noticeable, this spring it seemed there was nothing left to migrate. Yesterday I drove between two wolves chasing a doe a couple of miles out of Twisp, this was about one in the afternoon, her mouth hanging wide open and barely able to run anymore. I'm not the only one who has seen this happening this spring. The other day a wolf left a pile of wolf chit on the porch of a wolf lover a couple of mile out of Twisp, the lady was speechless, she said the wolves aren't suppose to be chitting on her porch they are supose to be in the wilderness.

In 2008 WDFW were finally forced into confirming one wolf pack in the Methow, they could have confirmed two more packs at that time.



"Dr. Bergerud, Dr. Robert Taylor and others disagreed with reintroduction of any wolves unless wolf numbers were strictly managed from the beginning – including in Yellowstone National Park – to prevent severe declines in elk and moose populations. They also warned that 10 breeding pairs exceeded total wolf habitat in YNP and the surplus wolves would spill over into other areas, causing unacceptable increases in livestock predation.

In other words, regardless of how many wolves are considered necessary to maintain genetic diversity, there was not enough designated wilderness in the three recovery areas to support even the proposed 30 breeding pairs without excessively impacting existing prey species and ranchers' livestock. With Congress insisting that the impact of wolf reintroduction must be minimal, wolf biologists began providing false information regarding the number of prey animals the average wolf would kill each year and about how many prey animals actually existed

Ignoring the studies indicating that wolves kill two to three times as many prey animals as they can consume, the wolf advocates promoted the lie that wolves kill only what they can eat. The wolf EIS estimated the average wolf would kill only 12 big game animals per year in YNP* – including both elk and deer."


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Existence of Many Wolves Ignored

Bangs also explained that it was too difficult to locate individual wolves or small groups of wolves that were not packs and emphasized that the existence of these wolves was not important to recovery. Once the transplanted wolves began pairing and successfully raising young, the Nez Perce and FWS recovery teams declined to investigate sightings of individual wolves or groups unless they involved livestock killing. But even then, if the livestock was moved to a different location and/or the wolf predation stopped, any investigation abruptly ceased. In some parts of Idaho where wolf populations are excessive, including the county we live in, local citizens report frustration over the Wolf Teams’ refusal to investigate reports of apparent pack activity unless there is evidence of at least two pups. The excuse used by the FWS/NezPerce Team for its failure to investigate such activity is that it is too expensive but it also is not interested in recording wolves unless they meet the confirmed wolf criteria agreed upon by Bangs, Ted Koch and Steve Fritts in 1994. The exception is the need to radio-collar one or more wolves to facilitate removal of one or more members of a pack that continue
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Wolf Numbers Underestimated

There are so many variables involved in attempting to estimate the total number of wolves in a state that any such estimate is prone to large errors even with the best information available. But when the existence of every wolf that has not been part of a "collared" pack is ignored, any such estimate is suspect.

 For example, local residents reported several wolf packs in Boise County yet FWS had documented only two. When the Team finally documented the existence of three more packs there were 2-1/2 times as many wolf packs as had been recorded and a similar increase in the number of breeding pairs – indicated both by pups and by yearlings that were born in the prior year and survived.

Although FWS goes back and adjusts the number of breeding pairs for the prior year when this evidence is documented, this system always results in initially underestimating both total wolves and breeding pairs.

Recovery goals in all three states were met at least 2-3 years before then current FWS estimates said they were, yet the actual number of breeding pairs was not admitted and recorded until after the fact.

http://www.idahoforwildlife.com/Website%20articles/George%20Dovel/The_Outdoorsman%2026%20January%202008%20full%20report.pdf