Now that Tree Farms are all going "Pay-to-play",...

[pianoman9701]

Will the timber companies lose their tax exemptions for the public recreational use that they get? Should they? Why or why not?

[whacker1]

I have never seen the actual tax exemptions that supposedly allow for public / recreational use... I am not saying it doesn't exist, but I would like to see where this comes from as I have only seen allegations that it exists.  I don't know under which tax policy this might exist.

Weyerhaeuser does get the agricultural property tax rate, which I don't believe would change. 

They do have a reduced B & O tax rate, which is the same as Boeing's. 

I don't believe either fo these are related to providing public or recreational use.

[spotter26]

another question i have about this is:

Is the WDFW going to start conforming their game management plans in those areas, requiring an access permit, to fit the number of land owner permits weyco/or any other timber decides to give out?

I can see this becoming more of the timber companies influencing the animal populations, within those areas, than the WDFW.

I believe that if they want to charge $200 to hunt their land, let the damn elk eat their trees. Its stupid that hunting is become a money game.

[Goshawk]

How about a two tier timber lands property tax rate.
Present rates for timber companies allowing open access.
Higher rates for timber companies that have pay to hunt, based on what a golf course is taxed at.

Start calling your state reps or stand back and loose it!

[Special T]

Chapter 84.33 RCW
TIMBER AND FOREST LANDS
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=84.33

[whacker1]

Chapter 84.33 RCW
TIMBER AND FOREST LANDS
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=84.33

Special T - I didn't see anything in there for exemptions for recreational / public access or am I missing something?

[Special T]

I think where these 2 issues colide is the desire for "open space" and the need for private property owners to controll thier land. I post these 2 RCW's up because i think it is the basis for the debate.

RCW 84.34.010
Legislative declaration. 

The legislature hereby declares that it is in the best interest of the state to maintain, preserve, conserve and otherwise continue in existence adequate open space lands for the production of food, fiber and forest crops, and to assure the use and enjoyment of natural resources and scenic beauty for the economic and social well-being of the state and its citizens. The legislature further declares that assessment practices must be so designed as to permit the continued availability of open space lands for these purposes, and it is the intent of this chapter so to provide. The legislature further declares its intent that farm and agricultural lands shall be valued on the basis of their value for use as authorized by section 11 of Article VII of the Constitution of the state of Washington.

[Special T]

I think you would have to look up the land in question and see if there is any open space/developemnt restrictions in wich they recieve a tax excemption... To complecate the matter further not all of thier land may be inrolled in a tax reduced program...

[6x6in6]

Open Space designation does not necessarily mean open to the public.  A dedication of land to a City/County that is Open Space would be open to the public.  A dedicated trail system is an example of City/County owned Open Space.
Open Space is simply a designation of use of the land.  For example, designated wetlands and their buffers are Open Space.
Occasionally, master planned communities are required to provide a certain amount of Open Space as a trade off for plat approvals.  Walking trails, for example, where ownership stays with a Homeowners Association as does maintenance of which is paid for by HOA dues.
Open Space lands are taxed at a lower mil rate.
Think undesirable land, set-aside land due to development densities and impervious surfaces for storm water run-off, not build-able or in a private timber companies position; not able to perform logging activities within a wetland buffer and you've got what are considered Open Space.
Those above ground storm detention ponds you see around town?  Those are typically Open Space.

[6x6in6]

Also, and I seem to recall this, so please correct me if I'm wrong.....
In 2010, Weyerhaeuser converted all of it's 6+ million acres of timberland holdings accross the country to a Real Estate Investment Trust, or REIT as it's known.
This provided them with a different tax structure along with providing them other opportunities for their land use.
I am not exactly sure how this ultimately affects the past tax situation, nor how it affects the present tax situation.  But, it may very well have a whole lot to do with why they are closing their land off to the public and can charge a fee entry/lease land.   

[jess]

hancock timber has been charging for years. I think if a timber company wants to charge a trespass fee they should pay the same tax rate as everyone else does! If that would happen there would be no more gates which would be a good thing.

[stihlpro]

Also, and I seem to recall this, so please correct me if I'm wrong.....
In 2010, Weyerhaeuser converted all of it's 6+ million acres of timberland holdings accross the country to a Real Estate Investment Trust, or REIT as it's known.
This provided them with a different tax structure along with providing them other opportunities for their land use.
I am not exactly sure how this ultimately affects the past tax situation, nor how it affects the present tax situation.  But, it may very well have a whole lot to do with why they are closing their land off to the public and can charge a fee entry/lease land.   

Part of being a  REIT is a heavy push to find "other sources of income" from the land.  If there is heavy pressure to do this is the easiest option to pursue.   

[6x6in6]

Hancock is different.  They are an investor owned company whereas WeyCo is C-corp.
2 totally different animals in the tax world.

[Curly]

another question i have about this is:

Is the WDFW going to start conforming their game management plans in those areas, requiring an access permit, to fit the number of land owner permits weyco/or any other timber decides to give out?

I can see this becoming more of the timber companies influencing the animal populations, within those areas, than the WDFW.

I believe that if they want to charge $200 to hunt their land, let the damn elk eat their trees. Its stupid that hunting is become a money game.

I agree.  And WDFW better not give out any more depredation permits on Weyco land.  Just let the bears peel the trees. 

[fireweed]

This is specific to timberland.  The legislature is clearly justifying a low property tax rate because of the public benefits timber provides.  One of those public benefits cited is "recreational spaces".  If now they are charging for recreational spaces, their taxes should go up accordingly.  May need to tweek the law, but no public benefit, no tax break makes sense to me.  (Isn't it funny that they announce this as the legislature is recessing?? Too late this year)

RCW 84.33.010

Legislative findings.
 

As a result of the study and analysis of systems of taxation of standing timber and forest lands by the forest tax committee pursuant to Senate Concurrent Resolution No. 30 of the 41st session of the legislature, and the recommendations of the committee based thereon, the legislature hereby finds that:

     (1) The public welfare requires that this state's system for taxation of timber and forest lands be modernized to assure the citizens of this state and its future generations the advantages to be derived from the continuous production of timber and forest products from the significant area of privately owned forests in this state. It is this state's policy to encourage forestry and restocking and reforesting of such forests so that present and future generations will enjoy the benefits which forest areas provide in enhancing water supply, in minimizing soil erosion, storm and flood damage to persons or property, in providing a habitat for wild game, in providing scenic and recreational spaces, in maintaining land areas whose forests contribute to the natural ecological equilibrium, and in providing employment and profits to its citizens and raw materials for products needed by everyone.