Gun owner targeted with 'no-knock' raid

[JLS]

Hitting the wrong house is the fail, regardless of whether someone got shot.  Whoever did the search warrant and provided the house info at the brief dropped the ball. 

You can hit the wrong house and still have a justified shooting, however difficult that is for some folks to wrap their heads around.

The shooting may be justified but the entry leading up to the shooting would not be......just sayin. You are right though on the dropping of the ball.

I agree with you.  The SWAT guys would have their butts covered so long as the court found that they were operating in good faith that they had the right residence.  The folks that penned the warrant would have some explaining to do.

Unfortunately, you are talking humans in the mix.  Therefore, 100% is probably never going to be consistently attainable.

[NWBREW]

Unfortunately, you are talking humans in the mix.  Therefore, 100% is probably never going to be consistently attainable.






I hear ya.

[christopheri]

I'm just wondering- if you have some strangers outside your house in the middle of the night, and they say they are the police, are you supposed to believe them?

Nope

Go on Amazon and type in FBI shirt or gear and you would be surprised at whats available.

I doubt too many thugs have enough money to buy armored cars and Bearcats though.

 All the more reason that cops dont need them.

[JLS]

I'm just wondering- if you have some strangers outside your house in the middle of the night, and they say they are the police, are you supposed to believe them?

Nope

Go on Amazon and type in FBI shirt or gear and you would be surprised at whats available.

I doubt too many thugs have enough money to buy armored cars and Bearcats though.

 All the more reason that cops dont need them.

I can't even begin to fathom how stupid that comment is.

[christopheri]

I'm just wondering- if you have some strangers outside your house in the middle of the night, and they say they are the police, are you supposed to believe them?

Nope

Go on Amazon and type in FBI shirt or gear and you would be surprised at whats available.

I doubt too many thugs have enough money to buy armored cars and Bearcats though.

 All the more reason that cops dont need them.

I can't even begin to fathom how stupid that comment is.

But you cant back up calling me stupid? Please explain to me why the police need APCs or Bearcats or full automatic weapons for that matter...

[Crunchy]

I'm just wondering- if you have some strangers outside your house in the middle of the night, and they say they are the police, are you supposed to believe them?

Nope

Go on Amazon and type in FBI shirt or gear and you would be surprised at whats available.

I doubt too many thugs have enough money to buy armored cars and Bearcats though.

 All the more reason that cops dont need them.

I can't even begin to fathom how stupid that comment is.

But you cant back up calling me stupid? Please explain to me why the police need APCs or Bearcats or full automatic weapons for that matter...

If you cant figure that one out on your own, I dont think anyone explaining it to you is going to help

[KFhunter]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2311443/Boston-bomber-caught-Dzhokhar-Tsarnaev-captured-ALIVE-hiding-inside-BOAT.html

Nice pics in here, pretty good write up.

[JLS]

I'm just wondering- if you have some strangers outside your house in the middle of the night, and they say they are the police, are you supposed to believe them?

Nope

Go on Amazon and type in FBI shirt or gear and you would be surprised at whats available.

I doubt too many thugs have enough money to buy armored cars and Bearcats though.

 All the more reason that cops dont need them.

I can't even begin to fathom how stupid that comment is.

But you cant back up calling me stupid? Please explain to me why the police need APCs or Bearcats or full automatic weapons for that matter...

I didn't call you stupid, I called your comment stupid.  I'm not going to explain it, go ask your local Sheriff or police Chief why they have them.

[jay.sharkbait]

I'm just wondering- if you have some strangers outside your house in the middle of the night, and they say they are the police, are you supposed to believe them?

JLS

Since you seem to be in the know...

What non-military entity would be training with beltfed automatic weapons at FT Lewis?



Nope

Go on Amazon and type in FBI shirt or gear and you would be surprised at whats available.

I doubt too many thugs have enough money to buy armored cars and Bearcats though.

 All the more reason that cops dont need them.

I can't even begin to fathom how stupid that comment is.

But you cant back up calling me stupid? Please explain to me why the police need APCs or Bearcats or full automatic weapons for that matter...

I didn't call you stupid, I called your comment stupid.  I'm not going to explain it, go ask your local Sheriff or police Chief why they have them.

[JLS]

Jay,

I can't speak to this as fact, but I highly doubt ANY LE agencies have a belt fed gun.  My guess is that a local SWAT team was training out there, and happened to be in the right place at the right time and got to do some "cross training"

Personally, for law enforcement situations, I think that fully automatic weapons are highly overrated.  My patrol rifle is a semi, even though I could get an full auto.  If I have to spray and pray for any unforseen reason, I can empty a 30 round mag pretty fast with it on semi.

[NWHydroprint]

Wrong house would constitute breaking and entering noway around it because the warrant would have been obtained incorrectly otherwise they would of had the right house.

 If a person is shot under these circumstances all people present and involved should be held accountable for murder and manslaughter. Anyone else would be charge even if you said sorry wrong person.

[Hermannr]

I don't think a lot of folks really understand a "no knock" raid.  It's not like SWAT is running all through the house in such a manner that no one knows who it is. 

I don't know if the small number that went bad, they had trouble breaching the entry, but once the flash bangs go off and they cross the threshold of the entry every single one of them is yelling "police".  Loudly.  Multiple times. 

They don't kick the door in and clear the house without announcing their authority.

Sorry, they will have to identify themselves and their reason for being there better than that before they are considered a home invader in this house. 

Might want to read this ruling from years ago.  http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=bad%20elk%20v.%20united%20states&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.law.cornell.edu%2Fsupremecourt%2Ftext%2F177%2F529&ei=LY7UUe3rIaPiiAK1o4HIBg&usg=AFQjCNEvGedHMRi_OA5ds99o5jcWPMUk7Q&bvm=bv.48705608,d.cGE

[JLS]

I don't think a lot of folks really understand a "no knock" raid.  It's not like SWAT is running all through the house in such a manner that no one knows who it is. 

I don't know if the small number that went bad, they had trouble breaching the entry, but once the flash bangs go off and they cross the threshold of the entry every single one of them is yelling "police".  Loudly.  Multiple times. 

They don't kick the door in and clear the house without announcing their authority.

Sorry, they will have to identify themselves and their reason for being there better than that before they are considered a home invader in this house. 

Might want to read this ruling from years ago.  http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=bad%20elk%20v.%20united%20states&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.law.cornell.edu%2Fsupremecourt%2Ftext%2F177%2F529&ei=LY7UUe3rIaPiiAK1o4HIBg&usg=AFQjCNEvGedHMRi_OA5ds99o5jcWPMUk7Q&bvm=bv.48705608,d.cGE

Can you please explain to me what relevance this case has to the statement I made?

[Johnb317]

 Sigh      the statistics posted only showed fatalities, not the number of homes that were mistakenly breached. 
Don't know about you guys, but if I'm asleep and someone breaks down my door I'm not necessarily hearing/comprehending what's going on, and if they threw in a flash bang the only thing I'm hearing is ringing in my ears!!

I pay my taxes, bills, vote, and help others in need. I also support the police and understand theirs is a difficult job. I also have a close friend back east who helps train swat teams.  That said, if they can take the time to get a no knock warrant or any warrant for that matter they can take the time to triple check addresses and the like. 

We don't get a pass if - oops we shot one duck over the limit, or I coulda sworn that bull had two points on the other side. 
By now processes and procedures should be in place to prevent hitting the wrong house. 

Imho

[Hermannr]

I'm just wondering- if you have some strangers outside your house in the middle of the night, and they say they are the police, are you supposed to believe them?

You didn't hear about the fake "DEA" raid on the wrong house in Marysville last year?  http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?98669-quot-DEA-quot-raids-wrong-Marysville-home