Will federal delisting impact state’s wolves?

[wolfbait]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,128540.0.html

Everyone should by now be aware of the fraud in WDFW!

What the hell is wrong with this state?

Voting and awareness, we do know how to read the truth don't WE??? Or did I get that backwards??

Or we could just calm down and wait for delisting, WD&Wolves knows best, more habitat will surely be the answer

Did WDFW and the USFWS lie about the wolves of the 1980's and 90's? If WDFW was lying about wolves back then, how big are their lies now?

Do you have any Questions as to how Washington is filled full of wolves now?

By the way I saw four tonight just before dark. Trail cams will be set this week.

[bearpaw]

I was in attendance at the WDFW meeting when the commission voted to end coyote hunting to protect the wolves in the Paysaten back in the 90's, I remember that day well. Unless they have destroyed those recorded tapes it's on record, that certainly contradicts WDFW claims that the Lookout Pack is the first pack in 70 years. 

That news story about the 6 packs back in 1991 also verifies that WDFW was claiming there were 6 packs of wolves then. They have lied to the people of Washington, either in 1991 or more recently, but one time or the other they clearly lied to us about wolves. 

[wolfbait]

WDFW's partners are starting to hide past history!


July 25, 2008
Lookout Pack

DNA tests showed that the wolves originated from a population in the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada.

"This is a natural colonization," said Fitkin. "The wolves are naturally immigrating."   

"I've been waiting for this for 18 years," said Fitkin, who said he was very excited by the findings of the investigation. Fitkin has been involved in wolf research in the North Cascades since 1991.

Though Washington state has not been home to a wolf pack since the 1930s, state wildlife officials have been expecting them to cross the border from Canada and disperse into the state from recovered populations in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming. http://myyellowstonewolves.typepad.com/ … s-are.html 



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Conservation NW took the last paragraph off of this article, my question is who took it off of the FUll article on the BB? http://www.methownet.com/bulletinboard.html
It shows them hiding from the lie of First Wolf Pack in 70 years, and where their wolves came from! Thank you, Conservation NW.
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How many people remember when the WDFW closed coyote hunting in the Pasayten Wilderness in the early 1990's because they were afraid someone would shoot one of their wolves. 
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Both articles are the same, and the last paragraph on both have been removed.  Who's packing WDFW's water?  And What's One More Lie?
 
http://myyellowstonewolves.typepad.com/myw/2008/07/gray-wolves-are.html
 
http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pressroom/press-clips/dna-samples-confirm-gray-wolves-are-back-in-methow-valley

[BOWHUNTER45]

There is absolutely nothing good coming out of this ...They want our hunting rights and they are trying everything they can to stop us ...From wolves - taking our ammo and shutting down gun dealers ...How the majority of the American people can not start dotting the I's and crossing the t's is beyond me ... Everyday that passes our right are being jeopardized ..from all angles of the box ! Last thing we need on the WESTSIDE is wolves ...Our deer herd is declining already and our elk herds are holding on but if we add the wolf to the equation then we are ( beeped)... I never could tell a wolf from a coyote So that's to my benefit 

[stuckalot]

The contradiction is in the fact that wolves have been absent from this state for 70 years, and that is what the WDFW has been selling. I be live that it was in this same time period that the WDFW made coyote hunting illegal in the Psyaden because of the presence of wolves.

You may not believe in the reintroduction of wolves into this state, however it IS a fact that they were reintroduced into ID and YNP from way up north in  the Canadian makensy valley.  There are LOTS of statements made by the WDFW that don't line up. Many seem to think that because we question the wdfw we wear tinfoil hats. MANY good honest questions have been asked of the WDFW and we get fed  cock and bull answers.  This either means the WDFW is full if Inept people that can't do their job, OR they are a bunch of liars. In either case its not good for hunters OR citizens of washington.

I honestly don't care where they came from. They're here, not likely to go away, and I just wish the state would let everyone protect themselves and what's theirs from them when necessary.

I'll say this, it is interesting that the state said there were SIX packs back in '92 and today they recognize only 10-12 packs. That either means they're seriously low balling the number or they aren't quite as prolific as everyone makes them out to be. My gut feeling is the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Or perhaps at the time there were 6 packs of Timber Wolves in the state, smaller in body, and pack size, and less prolific breeders.  Those packs have now likely been exterpated by the infiltration of Canadian Gray Wolves.

[Special T]

Here are some basic questions that don't have good answers.
WDFW closed hunting coyotes in the 90's  in the N cascades YET they say we haven't had nay wolves in 70 years. How can both be true. THEY said both.
THEY say that DNA proves that they are coming from BC. So why have wolves migrated from  the NE border of the state instead of the N Cascades south?

Since the WDFW admits that we had wolves in the N cascades and deer populations were relatively healthy, How come they are crashing now?

Since the WDFW says we had 6 packs in the 90s in the N cascades and NOW they only claim 3 (also including central cascades) how/ why are deer numbers crashing? (The reality is that the WDFW only claims 1.5 packs in the N cascades)

These are some basic questions that can't be BSed away. When you use THEIR own words and THEY contradict each other what should we think?

[AspenBud]

What the hell is wrong with this state?

That's easy, the money in this state is concentrated on the west side, where people think closely built subdivisions and houses on 2000-5000 square foot lots selling for $250,000-$500,000 is normal and ok.

Most folks don't see much wildlife in neighborhoods like that or on lots that small and if you look at hunter numbers in the state I think you'll see an even more disheartening trend since 1950.

We had barely more than 227,000 licensed hunters in this state back in 2001 and that number isn't substantially better today. Considering we have almost 7 million people in the state now I think the answer to your question lies right there.

[wolfbait]

What the hell is wrong with this state?

That's easy, the money in this state is concentrated on the west side, where people think closely built subdivisions and houses on 2000-5000 square foot lots selling for $250,000-$500,000 is normal and ok.

Most folks don't see much wildlife in neighborhoods like that or on lots that small and if you look at hunter numbers in the state I think you'll see an even more disheartening trend since 1950.

We had barely more than 227,000 licensed hunters in this state back in 2001 and that number isn't substantially better today. Considering we have almost 7 million people in the state now I think the answer to your question lies right there.

"That's easy, the money in this state is concentrated on the west side, where people think closely built subdivisions and houses on 2000-5000 square foot lots selling for $250,000-$500,000 is normal and ok."

Eidelweiss and The Lost River Airport>stacked on top of each other, why do people do that? I thought they came over here to get away from what they left behind? One good crown fire in either place would take them all out. Sad deal.

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The Westsiders and others who have moved to the Methow are getting educated as to the lies of WDF&Wolves, I have met quite a few who just shake their heads in disgust, quite sure they tell the truth back home. 

I saw four wolves earlly this morning trying to cross the road at Haltermans hole. I learned later in the day that several people had reported seeing wolves in the area. (less then a mile from down town Twisp) I wonder if they are dumpster diving behind Hank's Market again like the wolves of 09. So much for WDFW's lie of one maybe two wolves, agin. Why is WDFW considered a joke in the Methow Valley?
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I met a new game warden a while back, he said the people on the westside love WDFW but the people on the eastside don't like them.

I mentioned that in 2009, I knew for a fact that wolves were released in the Methow Valley, and WDFW denied this. He said all the wolf releases were conspiracy theories. There were a few other people who backed my story up, I even offered to send "The New" warden information, I think he was less positive when we finished talking to him about where the wolves of WA really came from.

I am quite sure, from the Top down WDFW have their own story which they stress to their employees as to where Washington's wolves came from and what to tell the public if asked. You can bet they don't say that we are partners with the USFWS, sometimes they release wolves and sometime they supply us with wolves and we releases them where we wish.
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As we are seeing now WDFW have forgotten some of their lies or truths of the past? Was WDFW lying then or are they lying now?

Welcome to the the fraud and corruption of the WA wolf introduction, same as the Idaho-Yellowstone Wolf introduction.

Ghosts of the Rockies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sl6NVXelb0

http://youtu.be/WtWNoJL5R9E

It will Be Open Season on wolves once this documentary is released!
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[WAcoyotehunter]

Tell us again about the UPS truck "release"...  and about that big court case you had planned a year or so ago that was on the down low.  What ever came of that?

[Chuck83]

At least it won't be a federal crime if you get caught killing one

[bearpaw]

I was in attendance at the WDFW meeting when the commission voted to end coyote hunting to protect the wolves in the Paysaten back in the 90's, I remember that day well. Unless they have destroyed those recorded tapes it's on record, that certainly contradicts WDFW claims that the Lookout Pack is the first pack in 70 years. 

That news story about the 6 packs back in 1991 also verifies that WDFW was claiming there were 6 packs of wolves then. They have lied to the people of Washington, either in 1991 or more recently, but one time or the other they clearly lied to us about wolves. 

[wolfbait]

Tell us again about the UPS truck "release"...  and about that big court case you had planned a year or so ago that was on the down low.  What ever came of that?

 As you know it wasn't a UPS truck but instead a USFWS truck. As for the lawsuits, there will be many I'm sure.

W-Coyote You have been packing water for WDFW for at least five years now, has Scott Fitkin offered you a job yet? You could be his head tracker, trapper. You would fit right in here in the Methow. I could even point you to where the Real wolf tracks are. But I suppose you would rather hunker down in the office with scotty, and shoot the chit about more habitat you could buy.
By the way W-coyote could you ask Fitkin about his lie of first wolf pack in seventy years, and get back to us! Think you can do that before obamacare kicks in?


BP>>I was in attendance at the WDFW meeting when the commission voted to end coyote hunting to protect the wolves in the Paysaten back in the 90's, I remember that day well. Unless they have destroyed those recorded tapes it's on record, that certainly contradicts WDFW claims that the Lookout Pack is the first pack in 70 years. 

That news story about the 6 packs back in 1991 also verifies that WDFW was claiming there were 6 packs of wolves then. They have lied to the people of Washington, either in 1991 or more recently, but one time or the other they clearly lied to us about wolves. 

[bearpaw]

Did they ever publish a map of the 1992 packs? It would be interesting to stomp around some of those pack areas?

Did they define a pack the way they do today?

In Washington, Feds Opt For Wolf Introduction Over Recovery  http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/

This still lends credence to my point. If they had to introduce wolves to WA when packs were already known to exist that likely means they are not very prolific and that runs totally counter to what is being sold about them these days.

WDFW isn't going to admit to much of anything I suspect because they know a lot of folks don't want wolves around. So they'll wait until the numbers are so high that it becomes nearly impossible to eliminate them. It's probably sort of like how WSU has sent out people to work with farmers and ranchers to rebuild habitat etc in the past. Typically all communication is done on the sly and university employees work "under cover" because the farmers/ranchers that work with them don't want to be black balled by their neighbors.

I see your reasoning.

Consider this, the wolves that migrated in from southern BC to the Paysayten were a different wolf sub specie, not as big, not as large of packs, and not as successful at reproducing. The wolves migrating in from Idaho were planted in Idaho, they are from farther north, they are larger critters, they form larger packs, and they have been more successful at reproducing as is illustrated in ID/MT. This in a nutshell explains why wolf numbers are suddenly exploding compared to the 90's. Yesterday I had reports of wolves spotted again in Ruby Creek, Smackout, and Tacoma Creek.

There are two cow moose that people have been watching on Smackout, one cow had one calf and the other cow had two calves. It seems likely the Smackout wolves have gotten all three moose calves, neither cow has a calf now. People are also finding lots of deer kills. Last year there were lots of moose and elk kills found, this year more deer kills. That could indicate the wolves have eaten most of the elk and moose in that area and have turned more to deer. That's what happened in Idaho.

Right now in northeast WA we have a bunch of strangers running around following the wolves that are reportedly not employees of the government. Someone investigated and it's claimed they are eco-terrorists trying to save the wolves. Not sure if they are Earth First, Conservation Northwest, or some other group. Reportedly Mitch Friedman who started Conservation Northwest used to be an Earth Firster, he just figured out how to get in the pocket of more and richer donors with Conservation Northwest. They have the resources to fund a major effort and WDFW may have even provided them with detailed info about the wolves. It is common knowledge that WDFW is very friendly with Conservation Northwest, in fact one of our wildlife commissioners (Jay Kehne) works for Conservation Northwest, his boss is Mitch Friedman.

CN Staff:  http://www.conservationnw.org/who-we-are/staff

http://www.conservationnw.org/who-we-are/staff/mitch-friedman

Among his best known stunts include:

- Organizing the first spotted owl protection protests
- Spending many hours in the canopy of ancient trees as one of the first tree-sitting protesters
- Conceiving and organizing the Ancient Forest Rescue Expedition, nationwide educational tours featuring a giant log towed by a semi-truck
- Executing the first non-logging high bid for a Forest Service timber sale (called Thunder Mountain)
- Spearheading the conservation acquisition of the Loomis State Forest wildlands, as well as the highly successful coalition effort, The Cascades Conservation Partnership

[WAcoyotehunter]

Tell us again about the UPS truck "release"...  and about that big court case you had planned a year or so ago that was on the down low.  What ever came of that?

 As you know it wasn't a UPS truck but instead a USFWS truck. As for the lawsuits, there will be many I'm sure.

W-Coyote You have been packing water for WDFW for at least five years now, has Scott Fitkin offered you a job yet? You could be his head tracker, trapper. You would fit right in here in the Methow. I could even point you to where the Real wolf tracks are. But I suppose you would rather hunker down in the office with scotty, and shoot the chit about more habitat you could buy.
By the way W-coyote could you ask Fitkin about his lie of first wolf pack in seventy years, and get back to us! Think you can do that before obamacare kicks in?


BP>>I was in attendance at the WDFW meeting when the commission voted to end coyote hunting to protect the wolves in the Paysaten back in the 90's, I remember that day well. Unless they have destroyed those recorded tapes it's on record, that certainly contradicts WDFW claims that the Lookout Pack is the first pack in 70 years. 

That news story about the 6 packs back in 1991 also verifies that WDFW was claiming there were 6 packs of wolves then. They have lied to the people of Washington, either in 1991 or more recently, but one time or the other they clearly lied to us about wolves. 

You said it was a UPS truck... the feds or state in disguise.  We all clearly remember you saying that.

The "first wolf pack in 70 years" thing is a difficult one.  I think there were quite a few people that knew there were some wolves up there, but they couldn't (or wouldn't?) go survey and appropriately document the "pack".  I have an old paper on the howling responses of coyotes to calls and they mention getting a response from wolves in the Pasayten sometime back in the 80's.  It was never a secret.  They just never went through any process of documentation.

[bearpaw]

Tell us again about the UPS truck "release"...  and about that big court case you had planned a year or so ago that was on the down low.  What ever came of that?

 As you know it wasn't a UPS truck but instead a USFWS truck. As for the lawsuits, there will be many I'm sure.

W-Coyote You have been packing water for WDFW for at least five years now, has Scott Fitkin offered you a job yet? You could be his head tracker, trapper. You would fit right in here in the Methow. I could even point you to where the Real wolf tracks are. But I suppose you would rather hunker down in the office with scotty, and shoot the chit about more habitat you could buy.
By the way W-coyote could you ask Fitkin about his lie of first wolf pack in seventy years, and get back to us! Think you can do that before obamacare kicks in?


BP>>I was in attendance at the WDFW meeting when the commission voted to end coyote hunting to protect the wolves in the Paysaten back in the 90's, I remember that day well. Unless they have destroyed those recorded tapes it's on record, that certainly contradicts WDFW claims that the Lookout Pack is the first pack in 70 years. 

That news story about the 6 packs back in 1991 also verifies that WDFW was claiming there were 6 packs of wolves then. They have lied to the people of Washington, either in 1991 or more recently, but one time or the other they clearly lied to us about wolves. 

You said it was a UPS truck... the feds or state in disguise.  We all clearly remember you saying that.

The "first wolf pack in 70 years" thing is a difficult one.  I think there were quite a few people that knew there were some wolves up there, but they couldn't (or wouldn't?) go survey and appropriately document the "pack".  I have an old paper on the howling responses of coyotes to calls and they mention getting a response from wolves in the Pasayten sometime back in the 80's.  It was never a secret.  They just never went through any process of documentation.

Are you thinking that possibly the WDFW said they had those wolves (6 packs or whatever they told the news media existed at the time), then requested a rule to close the coyote season in the Paysayten, the Wildlife Commission passed the rule closing coyote season in the Paysayten (I was at the WFW Commission meeting when this was passed), and all this happened without WDFW knowing for sure if those wolves existed?