Keep it or Release it? POLL Recordbook fish

[xd2005]

I HAVE A STUPID QUESTION!!!!!!!
i know nothing about fishing. everyone keeps saying it wouldnt survive. why? im catching that it gets filled with air? is that what kills it? how does that happen? and if the air is released why would it not survive if let go?

I am a novice at this, but I think it's similar to "the bends" for divers, in that the air in their swim bladder and other places expands as the pressure lessens. The key is to get them back down to a safe level (pressure) as quickly as possible for it to normalize.

[The100Road]

I HAVE A STUPID QUESTION!!!!!!!
i know nothing about fishing. everyone keeps saying it wouldnt survive. why? im catching that it gets filled with air? is that what kills it? how does that happen? and if the air is released why would it not survive if let go?

I am a novice at this, but I think it's similar to "the bends" for divers, in that the air in their swim bladder and other places expands as the pressure lessens. The key is to get them back down to a safe level (pressure) as quickly as possible for it to normalize.

huh. so can it swim up to shallower water on its own or does it have to stay down that low? dont they live in shallower water as well?

[Skillet]

I HAVE A STUPID QUESTION!!!!!!!
i know nothing about fishing. everyone keeps saying it wouldnt survive. why? im catching that it gets filled with air? is that what kills it? how does that happen? and if the air is released why would it not survive if let go?

At sea level, water pressure is 14.7 times air pressure at (I believe) 65 degrees F.  If he actually pulled this fish out of 900 feet of water, it would be like you going from sea level to almost the top of Rainier in a few minutes.  Your ears popping is somewhat like a fish's air bladder expanding - except when it happens to them their eyes blow out of their skull and their stomaches get pushed out of their mouths.  An air bladder in a fish is a much higher percentage of body volume than a humans ear drums are -  and fish dont get to chew Bubble Yum to try and make it go away.

[The100Road]

I HAVE A STUPID QUESTION!!!!!!!
i know nothing about fishing. everyone keeps saying it wouldnt survive. why? im catching that it gets filled with air? is that what kills it? how does that happen? and if the air is released why would it not survive if let go?

At sea level, water pressure is 14.7 times air pressure at (I believe) 65 degrees F.  If he actually pulled this fish out of 900 feet of water, it would be like you going from sea level to almost the top of Rainier in a few minutes.  Your ears popping is somewhat like a fish's air bladder expanding - except when it happens to them their eyes blow out of their skull and their stomaches get pushed out of their mouths.  An air bladder in a fish is a much higher percentage of body volume than a humans ear drums are -  and fish dont get to chew Bubble Yum to try and make it go away.

gotchya, does it matter how fast it gets reeled up? or no mater what that is going to happen?

[Skillet]

The theory is that if you get it up fast from a moderate depth, then get it back down fast to a moderate depth, there is "X" % of survival.  I dont think anybody considers 900 feet a moderate depth, tho.  In the Puget Sound, we are restricted from fishing below 120 feet for this very reason.

[RadSav]

I have doubts about rod and reel at 900' though. I have heard of some people trying their hand at rod and reel that deep and have done it myself for Black Cod and it is very difficult for a number of reasons. I will reserve judgement though, congrats, Henry on your catch.

I would have to agree with that.  150 fathoms of water in Alaskan currents I bet it's nearly impossible to hit the bottom with less than 200 fathoms (almost 1/4 mile) of line out.  If it was caught with rod & reel that guy deserves the "Iron Arm" fishing award.  Makes my arms hurt just thinking about it.  Though I expect the fish only fights for about 50 fathoms of that and floats the rest of the way.  But still that's a lot of reeling to be done

I've caught a lot of halibut and giant bocaccio rock fish in 50 to 60 fathoms off the Oregon coast and that was bad enough to keep on the bottom.  Triple that amount and add 25% to the current...crazy.  Possible for sure, but not too much fun.  We did use electric reels for some elderly and disabled anglers.  I suppose something like that would make it a bit more routine.

Congratulations to that guy regardless.  It's one heck of a fish for sure.

[huntnnw]

I watched a show off the coast of Fl where they were dragging up fish from huge depths and had a tool to relaese the air and the fish took right off

[j_h_nimrod]

Skillet, I liked the top of Rainier analogy, it gives a good impression of what happens.

I am a bit rusty on ichthyology but the term for this type of fish is physoclistic when regarding it's type of swim bladder. To control buoyancy they have a gas gland that adds or removes gas from the bladder. It is a relitively slow process that can not keep up with the rapid ascent associated with being reeled up on a fishing line. At shallower depth the expansion is small enough that the fishes body can contain it.  But at deeper depth or faster ascent rates the fish can not contain it and the gas follows the path of least resistance causing the bladder to expand and fill the body cavity expelling the stomach, compressing other organs, and rupturing tissues. In many cases the eyes will also protrude from small amounts of gas and in extreme cases the interior of the eye develops bubbles and ruptures internally. If the expansion is not too extreme then the pressure in the bladder can be released by puncture or the fish dropped to deeper depth again and they have a chance of survival. If you pop the protruding stomach the fish will live for a time but will likely die from infection and internal damage after a short time.

Not all fish are like this.  Salmon, for instance, are physostomus, meaning the gas in the swim bladder is controlled through a pneumatic duct that can alter pressure much more rapidly. Hence the reason why this is not an issue with all fish.

[mkcj]

Actually if you know how and have the right devise they do have a good chance to survive. I hate to think that was a female and had another 100 years of reproducing ahead of her.

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/washington-state/501398-our-fish-descender-use-got-their-attention.html

[mkcj]

If I remember right a rock fish in Puget sound grows around an inch a year with very low birth survival rates and the reason for them being protected or very limited fishing almost everywhere.

[sumbeech66]

To start I would have kept it because I think it would have died anyway.

I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that I bet that he was fishing probably with a charter or someone that  took him out that ten miles to fish a spot that the captain of the boat knew about. He probably used the gear that was recommended to use and how deep to fish. He happened to hook this fish by chance and brought it up. It probably surprised him but he did not know what he had exactly at that moment. He just knew that he had a large fish.

I would equate it to guys that dream of getting a big elk or deer while they wait for the season to open. Then they go out and stumble onto an extra large bull or buck. Do they pass and say that it is an old boy and just let it walk, I think not.

x2

I have a hard time believing anyone here is going to pass on a world record bull/buck. Its the same scenario as this fish. 

I don't get  it. I keep it, but probably cut it up before realizing its a record.

[RadSav]

Actually if you know how and have the right devise they do have a good chance to survive. I hate to think that was a female and had another 100 years of reproducing ahead of her.

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/washington-state/501398-our-fish-descender-use-got-their-attention.html

That's 60 to 100' or 10 to 17 fathoms with 80% survival.  The fish in question was caught at 900' or 150 fathoms!  And the eyes have not just simply protruded the sockets, but have completely ruptured.  There is absolutely no way on earth to have saved that fish.  You may be able to make it sink, but it is still going to die if it wasn't dead when it hit the surface.  Absolutely for certain!  Even at 50 fathoms that would be the case.  I've seen some success at 30 fathoms, but never at 50 or more.

Also, the estimated life span of a shortraker is 120 years.  If by some miracle this one did live to be 200 (which I seriously doubt) there is no chance she had another 100 years of repopulating reefs.  That would put her more than double life expectancy.

[addicted2hunting]

I would keep it.  Even if it was 200 years old, how many more years would it have left even if it did survive? 
I saw somewhere else on here that someone said big fish breed big fish.  Not really the case... genetics are the key, not the size of the fish when it spawns (salmon may be different since they get only one shot at it- but most other fish start breeding small and continue breeding). This fish has probably bred 100+ times already, so no worries about those genes being passed on.  You're keeping far more fish out of the future population by keeping a 20 year old yelloweye with another 100 years of breeding ahead of it than keeping this one that is likely at the end of its breeding life.

how do big fish get to be big? Genetics. So when they breed the pass on genetics.

[Skillet]

Skillet, I liked the top of Rainier analogy, it gives a good impression of what happens.

I am a bit rusty on ichthyology but the term for this type of fish is physoclistic when regarding it's type of swim bladder. To control buoyancy they have a gas gland that adds or removes gas from the bladder. It is a relitively slow process that can not keep up with the rapid ascent associated with being reeled up on a fishing line. At shallower depth the expansion is small enough that the fishes body can contain it.  But at deeper depth or faster ascent rates the fish can not contain it and the gas follows the path of least resistance causing the bladder to expand and fill the body cavity expelling the stomach, compressing other organs, and rupturing tissues. In many cases the eyes will also protrude from small amounts of gas and in extreme cases the interior of the eye develops bubbles and ruptures internally. If the expansion is not too extreme then the pressure in the bladder can be released by puncture or the fish dropped to deeper depth again and they have a chance of survival. If you pop the protruding stomach the fish will live for a time but will likely die from infection and internal damage after a short time.

Not all fish are like this.  Salmon, for instance, are physostomus, meaning the gas in the swim bladder is controlled through a pneumatic duct that can alter pressure much more rapidly. Hence the reason why this is not an issue with all fish.

   My observations support this.  I've often caught macks out of deep water on Lake Chelan.  If I don't intend to keep them (IMHO, the biggies out of there don't eat well at all), I'll play them slow and bring them up easy.  On calm days you can see the bubbles coming up as the fish "burps" out the gas from its swim bladder as it rises through the water column. 
On the other hand, I've caught walleye out of 70-80 FOW on Banks Lake and no matter how slowly you bring them up, it seems they still have bugged out eyes and about half of them have the stomache protruding.

[Skillet]

If I remember right a rock fish in Puget sound grows around an inch a year with very low birth survival rates and the reason for them being protected or very limited fishing almost everywhere.

They all grow at different rates at different stages in their lives.  On the coast, you can keep 10 rockfish a day - there are healthy, sustainably fished populations of them out there.  The issue with PS rockfish is they were overharvested to the point of crashing.  The reason we cannot fish below 120 feet in the PS (except for halibut) is that bringing incidentally caught rockfish up from below that line greatly reduces their chances of survival.  The fishing ban and depth restriction really don't have anything to do with birth rates any more than just trying to get the population back on the other side of "critical mass".  I don't have a long history of fishing the sound, but from what I've seen so far the rockfish populations seem to be doing much better than when I started.