4-point rule 117/121

[popeshawnpaul]

It definitely does create bigger bucks and that is simply a fact.  And the name calling towards our bio's is ridiculous.  I get it you may have an agenda and your strong belief's however calling our bio's "stupid" with a broad brush is ignorant.

Name calling would be ridiculous and that's not what I did.  I simply left out the "'t" but if you read my whole sentence it makes sense I was standing up for our bio's.  What's wrong with nearly every bio recommending one thing and some commissioners changing the management another direction?  Anyone see problems with that?  On this issue it benefited you but wait until it doesn't and see how you feel.  The general public shouldn't be making management decisions.

Buckfvr - first you state it's "head banging against a wall" that I have an opinion or know the facts of the 100 series units because my house is located in Bellevue.  Next you state my post is "skewed and does not represent actual facts".  I have the facts that I posted and more and they aren't skewed.  I have a degree in wildlife management, I talk to the bios and managers, and I was at every meeting and had input in all these issues.  I am much more informed that you would ever have imagined when you replied to my post.  Your responses are some of the reasons huntwa doesn't get more people on here that are involved with these hunting issues posting.

I listened to the census data and facts about the problem, listened to our bio's and wildlife managers, and have read tons of studies over the last 20+ years on these rules with respect to wildlife management.  After listening to the experts and looking at the facts, I came up with my personal opinion.  I do respect your opinion and also realize the short terms goals of this management decision.  I also realize we are seeing some of the expected "hunting benefits" of this decision.

[dscubame]

Pope,  truly did not mean to miss filling in the blank when I read your post and did not recognize the left out t.  That was not meant to be a cheap shot and I truly thought that is what you meant however I now stand corrected. 

[Ridgeratt]

I'd go statewide all species(deer).......but thats just me.   

A wise man Speaks!!!!!

[turkeyfeather]

I didnt really like it at first, but in hindsight I think it was a great idea. I almost got me a nice 5x5 last weekend in one of those units. Good thing I missed I hate picking fur out of the grill of the beast.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

If I remember correctly..the biologist were against the 4 pt minimum but came right out and said that they didn't really have any reasonable amount of local research to truly take a stand.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I attended every one of the meetings to get the rule pushed along and there was never a "3 yr "cap"" for the program.  The season setting is on a 3 yr cycle so it became an obvious timeline to check the costs and values of the rule.

Also- it was NEVER pushed along by outfitters as a trophy objective.  It was sportsman's groups and locals that care about the deer that made it happen.

[buckfvr]

Pope, if you have a degree in wildlife management, then Im at a loss for some of your statements, plus you'd not be the first or only wild life manager in this state to be misinformed...................

[popeshawnpaul]

If I remember correctly..the biologist were against the 4 pt minimum but came right out and said that they didn't really have any reasonable amount of local research to truly take a stand.

The bios weren't in favor.  There was no 3 year cap either.  The talk is the benefits are seen for about 3 years...  There is tons of research on the issue. 

[3nails]

Im all for the 4pt or better rule! Wish they would start doing this to some of the blacktail units!

4?  I could see 3 pt min for blacktail.  I hunted the 650 units for a lot of years and most of the good bucks I have seen were 3 pt

I've got a big heavy 2x3 blacktail in 2001 that I would have cried over in a 4 pt minimum hunt.

Well I was meaning antler restriction in general! Like the Mule Deer units, 3pt min!

There's just no need for antler restrictions on blacktails. Plenty of mature bucks on the westside.

[SkookumHntr]

lol, what are you smokin dude?? 

[3nails]

lol, what are you smokin dude?? 

Big mature blacktails....... Every year.

[Bean Counter]

I'm glad were having a follow up on this conversation. I remember when it was originally debated. Idk all the minutiae involved but when in doubt I'm on favor of an APR over not having one. Seems to go without saying that the average age and antler size of harvested bucks will go up. Just my humble (somewhat ignorant) opinion.

[buckfvr]

I have read many, many articles regarding whitetail management over the years. I see where a lot of the research supports antler restrictions, way more so than non-support.

It also seems to me that much research is agenda driven in that it usually is undertaken in hopes of supporting ones, or ones own groups theories, or to dis-prove anothers theories.

We can read and write and educate all we want, but it needs to be tempered with practical experience and time.  WIld life management/whitetail deer management isnt a one size fits all discussion, and can and will vary from unit to unit, even within a single unit.

When we think we have learned so much more than the next guy, that we are unwilling to give thought to new ideas or give consideration for what others are experiencing in a boots on the ground enviroment, then maybe its time to take a step back and watch....observe....see if maybe there isnt something else we can learn and catalog for the future.  I learn about whitetail nearly every day.....and my class room is the fields and woods of ne wa.  Im excited and thankfull every day to live in this enviroment.

[SkookumHntr]

lol, what are you smokin dude?? 

Big mature blacktails....... Every year.

Well im not gonna argue on this anymore but I live in the middle of what use to be the one of the best blacktail units in the state, the deer numbers are nothing like they were 15 years ago..Dont take a bio or a wildlife degree to figure this out..

[buckcanyonlodge]

I think if it is such a success with more bucks-"even after the first year"- and more deer in general then we should make the whole state 4 point or better even for mulies and black-tail. We could be over-run with deer in no time at all -- Look at all the wolf food we'd be making. Thank you 4 point restriction.............