Free: Contests & Raffles.
Quote from: buckfvr on July 15, 2013, 07:44:37 AM I know for a fact that if it isn't fun and it's hard to harvest a deer they will quit. Considering your statement above it is a good thing that it's actually very, very easy to harvest a 4x4 whitetail in those units...and it's only getting easier with the restrictions....... I actually can't understand how someone can't get their kid on one if they are able to put in a few days of scouting and a few days of effort (I do understand that some people don't have the luxury of that time/money...but then it probably makes more sense for them to scout an area out near home rather than half way across the state)Where I grew up the hunting was often very difficult and there were times I would go a week or more without seeing a single deer. I can't say that I ever felt like I wanted to quit. If kids are quitting because something is hard then I think the parent needs to mentor and parent their chlildren to understand that things that don't come easy are generally the most rewarding in the end. We definitely don't want to raise a generation of quitters.After being in the military I am noticing that as part of the problem of this generation. We are having trouble getting kids to make it into my career field because they quit when it's too hard and they don't get that immediate gratification they are used to getting..... It's not really their fault...many of them were raised in this generation where "everyone get's a trophy...even the ones that lost"... of course I understand that philsophy is intended to have the kids best interest in mind.. unfortuantely it doesn't seem to help them in the real world.Sorry for the rant... back to the topic at hand.
I know for a fact that if it isn't fun and it's hard to harvest a deer they will quit.
.....what's even more hilarious about all this and some on here that don't wanna listen to us so called " arm chair biologists" is a few of us spend more time in the units than bios do! I have 15 trail cams out scattered everywhere here in NE WA... Wanna know the branched antler buck to spike ratio? It's in the 8:1 to 10::1 !!! There are FAR more bucks running around with 4+ pts than spikes and forks ! Guys complaining that they can't shoot a spike , your hunting the minority!
I've heard as high as 40% can be passed from the mother's line of breeding.
Quote from: muleyguy on July 15, 2013, 10:32:02 PMand, if anybody thinks this rule will be rescinded, ever, is extremely naive.......the reason is very simple and is mathmatically based..........the very first year that you implement an APR, you "save" a bunch of yearling class bucks and create a bubble of them in the population.what do you think happens when you unwind the APR and let people shoot any buck? its a complete wipeout.............huge increase in harvest; They will never get rid of it;When I started hunting 121 (it was 117 then) back in the late 90's it was 3 point minimum. They got rid of that a few years later and it was any buck up until just a couple seasons ago. I like the APR but I wouldn't go so far as to say they will never get rid of it Quote from: muleyguy on July 15, 2013, 10:32:02 PMDon't run a gimmick that does nothing for the does, and only reduces the age class of breeding bucks, which further causes other biological issues.Use good science and do whats right for the herd, even if that means slightly reduced hunter opportunities.But didn't they also reduce the number of doe permits to almost nothing up there compared to what was available before the APR went into effect?
and, if anybody thinks this rule will be rescinded, ever, is extremely naive.......the reason is very simple and is mathmatically based..........the very first year that you implement an APR, you "save" a bunch of yearling class bucks and create a bubble of them in the population.what do you think happens when you unwind the APR and let people shoot any buck? its a complete wipeout.............huge increase in harvest; They will never get rid of it;
Don't run a gimmick that does nothing for the does, and only reduces the age class of breeding bucks, which further causes other biological issues.Use good science and do whats right for the herd, even if that means slightly reduced hunter opportunities.
Quote from: boneaddict on July 16, 2013, 07:16:33 AMQuoteI know for a fact that if it isn't fun and it's hard to harvest a deer they will quit.I wonder if that's trumped up more than it used to be due to internet forums etc. Can't have fun without killing something. That's an interesting concept. I think sometimes perspective is lost when we're surfing the web and forgetting the joy of being afield. I know plenty of "Ol' Timers" that hunt year in and year out without success. By and large it isn't because they're hitting it hard and getting screwed by APR, it's because they enjoy sitting at a campfire and storytelling with Jim Beam as much as anything. I imagine this is widespread.As far as kids go: if a hunting child is bored because they can't blast a doe wherever they go, I think they're parent/mentor has done a poor job of instilling a Sportsman Mindset into that boy or girl. Hunting is a right but killing isn't a right. If deer hunting is too hard, go shoot some grouse or pheasants.
QuoteI know for a fact that if it isn't fun and it's hard to harvest a deer they will quit.I wonder if that's trumped up more than it used to be due to internet forums etc. Can't have fun without killing something. That's an interesting concept.
Washington Deer Harvest Drops Vs. 2010; General Rifle Numbers, Buck Take Reach New LowBy Andy Walgamott, on May 2nd, 2012Fewer Washington hunters killed 4,000 less deer and were more unsuccessful last fall than in 2010′s season.Figures fresh out from the Department of Fish & Wildlife show that a total of 29,154 muleys, blacktail and whitetail bucks and does were killed by 125,537 general season and permit hunters last year, including 23,382 bucks for a 23.2 percent success rate.By comparison, 2010′s stats were 33,391 deer for 131,133 sportsmen, including 27,272 bucks for a 25.5 percent success rate.The figures confirm some field reports from last year of sharp declines in hunter numbers, but makes puzzles of others.http://nwsportsmanmag.com/headlines/washington-deer-harvest-hunter-numbers-drop-vs-2010/
I guess I'm an arm chair biologist.
In response to PA Bens postMaybe you forced your agenda on them by starting them at 8. Maybe you should have waited until they were a little older and could understand what hunting was all about. OBVIOUSLY I have no clue.
I remember when the Dayton are went to "spike only elk" and 3pt min for deer. They said it would be a 3yr trial and then it ended up sticking forever. I don't see it changing. Once the WDFW takes something away your not getting it back. In this case I like it, leave it 4pt min.
Quote from: bearpaw on July 16, 2013, 06:50:34 PMI guess I'm an arm chair biologist.No...you are a guy with on the ground experience...something that is unfortunately not valued as much as a college degree these days I don't have much of an opinion on the 4 pt issue but I definitely support people who are willing to share their background/field experience and not just accept a biologists word as the gospel. I say that as a biologist for the feds (I will have to go into hiding now ). I deal with a wide range of contentious issues and I never discount experienced, local knowledge. I also never use "Im a biologist" or "I have degrees in fish and wildlife" to support a position...if I can't provide evidence or information or articulate my opinion/position better than "I have a degree" then I probably ought to re-evaluate the issue