Damn shame

[oneshot12]

       this is the kind of thing that gives all honest hunters a black eye  and pisses most of us off,  glad the office caught them 

[sweetlou]

Good job to the Officer that made the contact. Gotta love our FW officers!

[acnewman55]

This type of offense should be treated like a wildlife felony, no firearms or game privileges for life.

Not trying to target this poster here, just making a point.  I'm seeing lots of comments like this.  Overreactions.

For all the talk about defending our second amendment rights on hunting forums, folks sure are quick to suggest taking these rights away from others. 


Let's take a few arguments from the pro-guns side of the aisle and apply them here:

1. He could have killed that elk with a bow, a knife, a blunt object, or poison.  Why just take his guns?

2.  If he's a poacher/criminal he won't obey that law anyways right?  He'll find a way to kill an elk with/without the gun.

3. That elk has a much higher chance of being hit by a truck on I-90 than being killed by a poacher with a gun.

So what good does taking his guns away do?   



Why are we pro-gun hunters suddenly in a rush to take somebody's constitutional rights away?  Emotional reaction leading to irrational thought?  --> That's what the gun-grabbers are always doing right?  Don't we always call them out for that?

Let's keep our constitutional rights sacred --> loss of constitutional rights? shooting an elk out of season is not a crime equal to the punishment here!

We all need to think a little before we post comments like this.  This forum is harmless but when our posts/actions here contradict our beliefs that we claim to hold so sacred, it makes me wonder if we really know what we're talking about.

[pianoman9701]

Sorry Ace, but I completely disagree. First on your bulleted points:
1. The gamie takes whichever implement was used in the crime
2. A killer is punished for killing. A poacher is punished for poaching. Making stiffer laws for poaching doesn't take away my rights because I'm not a law-breaking, poaching, resource stealer. A poacher is the only one who would suffer from stiffer fines. This is very unlike gun restrictions, which penalize everyone for the crimes of a few.
3. By your reasoning then, we shouldn't have any game restrictions or laws because animals get hit by trucks. That argument is so ridiculous as to defy coherent response.

Poachers are thieves. Game laws were made to assist the implementation of the North American Game Management Model, which uses hunters (not poachers or thieves) to manage wildlife and establishes that the game in the US belongs to everyone. Therefor, when someone poaches, they steal from you and me and take away our game and our opportunity to harvest game.

You asked why we're in such a hurry to take someone's Constitutional rights away? Because poachers have no respect for the rule of law or for your possessions and mine. It's no different than someone stealing a car or jewelry. Do you think that a car thief shouldn't have their rights taken away? Why is it different with a poacher? Remember: these are not fellow hunters. These are not fellow patriots. These are thieves.

[one more]

 

[acnewman55]

Sorry Ace, but I completely disagree. First on your bulleted points:
1. The gamie takes whichever implement was used in the crime
2. A killer is punished for killing. A poacher is punished for poaching. Making stiffer laws for poaching doesn't take away my rights because I'm not a law-breaking, poaching, resource stealer. A poacher is the only one who would suffer from stiffer fines. This is very unlike gun restrictions, which penalize everyone for the crimes of a few.
3. By your reasoning then, we shouldn't have any game restrictions or laws because animals get hit by trucks. That argument is so ridiculous as to defy coherent response.

Poachers are thieves. Game laws were made to assist the implementation of the North American Game Management Model, which uses hunters (not poachers or thieves) to manage wildlife and establishes that the game in the US belongs to everyone. Therefor, when someone poaches, they steal from you and me and take away our game and our opportunity to harvest game.

You asked why we're in such a hurry to take someone's Constitutional rights away? Because poachers have no respect for the rule of law or for your possessions and mine. It's no different than someone stealing a car or jewelry. Do you think that a car thief shouldn't have their rights taken away? Why is it different with a poacher? Remember: these are not fellow hunters. These are not fellow patriots. These are thieves.

1. "The gamie takes whichever implement was used in the crime" - I'm not talking about the weapon used, I'm talking about the right to posses a weapon.

2. "A killer is punished for killing. A poacher is punished for poaching. Making stiffer laws for poaching doesn't take away my rights because I'm not a law-breaking, poaching, resource [stealer]...." uh huh. this sort of thinking has all sorts of implications.  a fighter is punished for fighting. a drunk is punished for drinking. a jay-walker is punished for jay-walking. who get's to keep their guns?

3. By your reasoning then, we shouldn't have any game restrictions or laws because animals get hit by trucks. That argument is so ridiculous as to defy coherent response. I agree, it's a stupid argument.  Not sure why pro-gun folks use it so much - it's embarrassing really.

"Do you think that a car thief shouldn't have their rights taken away? Why is it different with a poacher?" that's an easy one. because I paid half a year's wages for my car. and because i only owned one 315-millionth of that Elk.

Remember: these are not fellow hunters. These are not fellow patriots. These are thieves."

ok. so you're no longer an American citizen if you kill an elk out of season? or you are, you just no longer have Constitutional rights?  what if it was in-season but you only had a deer tag? what if you killed a cow with a spike-only tag?  still a citizen?

just curious who gave you the divine authority to draw that line?  because Obama seems to claim the same divine authority; drawing those arbitrary lines between what's an assault weapon and what's not.  or what's a high capacity magazine and what's not.  and every day he's trying to figure out how to draw those lines more and more fine.  and all you're doing by blurring those lines is helping him. 

personally, i'll sell my rights more dearly than you seem to. 

[pianoman9701]

Sorry Ace. You don't seem to think poaching is a serious crime and I do. That's the end of that. Have a nice day.

[ctwiggs1]

Felons aren't allowed to have guns in most states.  It's that simple.

If I have to follow the rules, so should they.  There are accidents here and there that really aren't a sign of malice or negligence, just being unaware of very intricate laws.  I think the gamies TYPICALLY show lenience on these types.

HOWEVER ------ When the guy changes his story 3 times because he KNEW he was wrong in the beginning............ That makes me think he knew what he was doing.  That means that he had this thought in his head "I know this is completely illegal, potentially even a felony... But I'm going to do this anyways".

So how am I siding with Obama when I say "Hey, these laws have been around for a long time - why aren't you following them?" 

To be perfectly honest I can't understand half your posts, but I think what you're trying to say is that you feel that if someone is poaching (knowingly), you are OK with it.  "Hey let it slide, it's only an elk".  If that's the case, I think you'll find you're probably in the wrong forum for that mentality.

[xXLojackXx]

The poacher used his weapon in an illegal manner, therefore violating and terminating his "rights" of such possession. For the same reason a fellow convicted of murder doesn't get to own weapons, he blew his chance of being a responsible firearm bearing adult.

People that poach animals out of season are on the same page as convicted murders in my book. Lock the scum bags up an throw away the key. Or put a bear rug on them and tell them to walk the foothills in August.

[pianoman9701]

The poacher used his weapon in an illegal manner, therefore violating and terminating his "rights" of such possession. For the same reason a fellow convicted of murder doesn't get to own weapons, he blew his chance of being a responsible firearm bearing adult.

People that poach animals out of season are on the same page as convicted murders in my book. Lock the scum bags up an throw away the key. Or put a bear rug on them and tell them to walk the foothills in August.

  x2

[mrgoodwrench]

Put a choker around his ankles and drag him to jail behind the pickup...

[acnewman55]

I think what you're trying to say is that you feel that if someone is poaching (knowingly), you are OK with it.  "Hey let it slide, it's only an elk".

My post wasn't really about poaching it was about constitutional rights...

I'll try to be more clear - I have a big problem with poaching.  It's a serious crime.  However, I don't consider it as serious a crime as violence against humans.  I think there should be punishment for this crime and that the punishment should match the crime.

I don't think that killing an animal out of season warrants the loss of a constitutional right.

The mentioning of Obama serves to make the point that gun-control activists will grab any inch of ground they can, if we let them. If killing a man now warrants the loss of these rights (as it should) and tomorrow killing an elk warrants the loss of these rights then I worry what it'll be the next day?

The trend is that we're willing to take these constitutional rights away from individuals committing less and less serious crimes.  It sends a message that the right to bear arms is more and more conditional.  Soon it looks like a privilege instead of a constitutional right  -  which is exactly how gun-control people see it now.

Sorry for bringing up the constitution and interfering with your hunt-wa lynch mob everyone hopefully you didn't let all your torches go out!

[hntrspud]

I just have to say good for the officer! Personal opinions aside, he did HIS JOB, and we are now for the better.

I think thats what the thread started as......

[pianoman9701]

I think what you're trying to say is that you feel that if someone is poaching (knowingly), you are OK with it.  "Hey let it slide, it's only an elk".

My post wasn't really about poaching it was about constitutional rights...

I'll try to be more clear - I have a big problem with poaching.  It's a serious crime.  However, I don't consider it as serious a crime as violence against humans.  I think there should be punishment for this crime and that the punishment should match the crime.

I don't think that killing an animal out of season warrants the loss of a constitutional right.

The mentioning of Obama serves to make the point that gun-control activists will grab any inch of ground they can, if we let them. If killing a man now warrants the loss of these rights (as it should) and tomorrow killing an elk warrants the loss of these rights then I worry what it'll be the next day?

The trend is that we're willing to take these constitutional rights away from individuals committing less and less serious crimes.  It sends a message that the right to bear arms is more and more conditional.  Soon it looks like a privilege instead of a constitutional right  -  which is exactly how gun-control people see it now.

Sorry for bringing up the constitution and interfering with your hunt-wa lynch mob everyone hopefully you didn't let all your torches go out!

It's not a lynch mob. You accused me of being a liberal Obama lover because I think poaching is a serious enough crime to be a felony for subsequent arrests. Make statement like that to someone who's very fiscally and Constitutionally conservative and you're asking for fireworks. You can choose to make your points either without personal attacks or with them. I suggest if you don't like people coming down on you that you choose the "without" option. People who start crap don't get to call foul after they do and someone gets bent out of shape as a result.

[ctwiggs1]

Not to invalidate your arguments here, but honestly they are kind of invalid. 

I'm not entirely sure what crimes are becoming less and less serious.  If you're a felon you lose your gun rights.

***HOWEVER*** I know people who have been in prison for felonies they committed decades ago and have had those records expunged, and now are able to own guns.  So realistically it's becoming easier and easier to get your rights BACK after you've shown you're a contributing member to society.

We the law abiding people should absolutely fight (in legislation and court, not physically) the libs who are trying to take away our 2nd amendment rights.  That being said, I would not classify this low life poacher as a member of my "we the law abiding people" demographic.

Curtis