This was in WSU News today

[Evil_EdwardO]

http://news.wsu.edu/articles/36900/1/Return-of-wolves-aids-grizzly-bears-in-Yellowstone

[pianoman9701]

I saw this on the news this morning. So, too bad for the elk herds but great for grizzlies. WTH? 

[bearpaw]

they will spin the news to benefit wolves any way they can, just like WDFW has done thus far regarding wolves in wa

[WSU]

It doesn't seem "spun" to me.  Basically, the study says wolves eat elk.  Elk eat berries (the bush, anyway), as do grizzlies.  With less elk eating the berries, there are more berries for the grizzlies. 

Whether you prefer elk or grizzly bears isn't part of the study.  The above facts are.

[Mr Mykiss]

Posted for BLUESBULLS I sent him the same article:

"For several years we lacked spring/summer moisture which produces late summer/early fall berries. Well get this, the last 2 years we’ve had exceptional, record high precipitation in the late spring/early summer and had bumper crops of berries. Remember 3 years ago when you guys had a lot of bear issues in Idaho? Well that was in part due to the lack of berries. No problems last year, right? Well there you have it, just plain old good conditions for berries the last 2 years. They sure can come up with a lot of ******* to save some wolves. They might want to read up a little bit and find that “elks” are “grazers”, not “browsers” and therefore berry bushes would not be a main part of the “elks” diet. If I’m wrong then I will be hunting elk on the _____ road only because it’s loaded with berries right now and the “elks” are sure to come feed. Weird though, I was there Saturday and all of the elks were elsewhere eating grasses???"

I told him that he was smart and should be a wildlife biologist. Maybe not...he'd probably turn rotten with a little persuasion of the QUALITY ELK TAG kind

[WSU]

Interesting info.  It would certainly call the study's conclusion into question if that isn't accounted for.

[Bob33]

More here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23495074

"Unfortunately, as wildlife ecologists working in a vast landscape such as the greater Yellowstone ecosystem it is very difficult to unravel the complexity of the patterns."

[BIGINNER]

Posted for BLUESBULLS I sent him the same article:

"For several years we lacked spring/summer moisture which produces late summer/early fall berries. Well get this, the last 2 years we’ve had exceptional, record high precipitation in the late spring/early summer and had bumper crops of berries. Remember 3 years ago when you guys had a lot of bear issues in Idaho? Well that was in part due to the lack of berries. No problems last year, right? Well there you have it, just plain old good conditions for berries the last 2 years. They sure can come up with a lot of ******* to save some wolves. They might want to read up a little bit and find that “elks” are “grazers”, not “browsers” and therefore berry bushes would not be a main part of the “elks” diet. If I’m wrong then I will be hunting elk on the _____ road only because it’s loaded with berries right now and the “elks” are sure to come feed. Weird though, I was there Saturday and all of the elks were elsewhere eating grasses???"

I told him that he was smart and should be a wildlife biologist. Maybe not...he'd probably turn rotten with a little persuasion of the QUALITY ELK TAG kind

   that though actually crossed my mind while reading this article.... 

[AspenBud]

Posted for BLUESBULLS I sent him the same article:

"For several years we lacked spring/summer moisture which produces late summer/early fall berries. Well get this, the last 2 years we’ve had exceptional, record high precipitation in the late spring/early summer and had bumper crops of berries. Remember 3 years ago when you guys had a lot of bear issues in Idaho? Well that was in part due to the lack of berries. No problems last year, right? Well there you have it, just plain old good conditions for berries the last 2 years. They sure can come up with a lot of ******* to save some wolves.

Quite likely.

They might want to read up a little bit and find that “elks” are “grazers”, not “browsers” and therefore berry bushes would not be a main part of the “elks” diet.

Do berry bushes qualify as "shrubs?" If so, you're not entirely correct.

Diet

Summer:  grasses and forbs
Spring and Fall:  grasses
Winter: grasses, shrubs, tree bark and twigs

http://www.rmef.org/ElkFacts.aspx

[jackmaster]

idk if this is true or not but i heard that yellowstone isnt bringn in squat for money because there isnt anything to hardly see there anymore, i dont have a clue because i have never been there... i love how they are ok with replacing herbavores with 2 of the most violent carnivores known to man   

[Mr Mykiss]

I didn't write it but I trust the source.
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??**

**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!!

[AspenBud]

I didn't write it but I trust the source.
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??**

**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!!

You see many berries in winter when elk snack on bushes?   
 
 They don't eat just grass in winter, they would starve when the snow falls in a place like Yellowstone. And bushes chewed to the ground don't produce berries in Spring and Summer.

But believe whatever "facts" you want to. This is the internet after all.

[snowpack]

I know they have tall fences around some of the berry farms to keep the elk out.  Haven't heard of the elk eating the actual berries, but they do eat some bushes and trample a lot of bushes.  I know they eat salal bushes, but haven't seen where they eat the actual berry.  Interesting to know.

[Curly]

I didn't write it but I trust the source.
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??**

**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!!

[AspenBud]

I know they have tall fences around some of the berry farms to keep the elk out.  Haven't heard of the elk eating the actual berries, but they do eat some bushes and trample a lot of bushes.  I know they eat salal bushes, but haven't seen where they eat the actual berry.  Interesting to know.

 

Eating the bushes does the damage. Eating berries is not the problem.

[JLS]

idk if this is true or not but i heard that yellowstone isnt bringn in squat for money because there isnt anything to hardly see there anymore, i dont have a clue because i have never been there... i love how they are ok with replacing herbavores with 2 of the most violent carnivores known to man   

Absolutely untrue.

[JLS]

I didn't write it but I trust the source.
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??**

**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!!

The article said the elk were eating the bushes, not the berries.

[Curly]

I didn't write it but I trust the source.
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??**

**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!!

The article said the elk were eating the bushes, not the berries.

Never let the facts get in the way of a funny statement. 

[JLS]

I didn't write it but I trust the source.
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??**

**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!!

The article said the elk were eating the bushes, not the berries.

Never let the facts get in the way of a funny statement. 

I did laugh

[buckfvr]

sage brush, bitter brush, red stem, poplar, juniper, scrub alder, vine maple......the list of elk browse goes on and on....... huckle berry, service berry, snow berry.......on and on..........seedlings in reprod......yep, they eat grasses, but they also browse significantly to survive in the mountains........it aint the great plains animal it once was dorothy.......................

[JLS]

sage brush, bitter brush, red stem, poplar, juniper, scrub alder, vine maple......the list of elk browse goes on and on....... huckle berry, service berry, snow berry.......on and on..........seedlings in reprod......yep, they eat grasses, but they also browse significantly to survive in the mountains........it aint the great plains animal it once was dorothy.......................

and aspen bark in the winter.

[Mr Mykiss]

Hug or no hug I don't think we're going to be able to do anything about it... no we're not in Kansas anymore Dorothy...we're in Idaho.

[KFhunter]

The article is right for the wrong reasons imo


grizz eat the wolves' leftovers, scavange the partially eaten carcasses. 
Why their noses are so good, they can smell a wolf kill before it happens and travel miles to get there.   They'll run em off the kill if they are big enough or the wolves fat enough.

berries - pfft

[AspenBud]

The article is right for the wrong reasons imo


grizz eat the wolves' leftovers, scavange the partially eaten carcasses. 
Why their noses are so good, they can smell a wolf kill before it happens and travel miles to get there.   They'll run em off the kill if they are big enough or the wolves fat enough.

berries - pfft

Or they do what this black bear does...

Bear Kills Moose

[denali]

Hug or no hug I don't think we're going to be able to do anything about it... no we're not in Kansas anymore Dorothy...we're in Idaho.

very true...without the politics to do a thing about it 

[denali]

.

[Labs07]

Seems pretty objective to me!  WOlves eat the elk that eat the berries that bear eat so less elk wquals better health of bear.  Open a griz hunt now!

[wolfbait]

This is just one more BS fake story for the brain-washed biologist and city people to read. Remember the lies that David Mech told to further the wolf agenda? Remember the lie of how the beaver had multiplied??  THEN COME TO FIND OUT THE AZZHOES HAD PLANT 16O some beaver. Wellcome to the USFWS propaganda machine. Not to worry, we have WAcoyote to straighten us all out. WDFW is true blue, they would never tell a lie! Wolves will not impact the game herds in WA.

I suppose jackelope is going to delete this thread now? Oh wait this is now 2013 and it's harder to hide the truth.

[Mr Mykiss]

This is just one more BS fake story for the brain-washed biologist and city people to read. Remember the lies that that David Mech told to further the wolf agenda? Remember the lie of how the beaver had multiplied??  THEN COME TO FIND OUT THE AZZHOES HAD PLANT 16O some beaver. Wellcome to the USFWS propaganda machine. Not to worry, we have WAcoyote to straighten us all out. WDFW is true blue, they would never tell a lie! Wolves will not impact the game herds in WA.

I suppose jackelope is going to delete this thread now? Oh wait this is now 2013 and it's harder to hide the truth.

I'm confused. Could you please clearly state your position on this issue?

[flatbkman]

The article makes it sound like berries are the staple of the grizzly bear's diet making them out to be vegans or something.
If you look further a grizzly will eat a variety of foods of which berries is only a minor part during only a portion of the year.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070215083202.htm

[wolfbait]

This is just one more BS fake story for the brain-washed biologist and city people to read. Remember the lies that that David Mech told to further the wolf agenda? Remember the lie of how the beaver had multiplied??  THEN COME TO FIND OUT THE AZZHOES HAD PLANT 16O some beaver. Wellcome to the USFWS propaganda machine. Not to worry, we have WAcoyote to straighten us all out. WDFW is true blue, they would never tell a lie! Wolves will not impact the game herds in WA.

I suppose jackelope is going to delete this thread now? Oh wait this is now 2013 and it's harder to hide the truth.

I'm confused. Could you please clearly state your position on this issue?

THE WILDLANDS PROJECT  http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/special_issues/wildlands_project_step_by_step.htm

[headshot5]

The article makes it sound like berries are the staple of the grizzly bear's diet making them out to be vegans or something.
If you look further a grizzly will eat a variety of foods of which berries is only a minor part during only a portion of the year.

Yep the article makes it sound like berries are on the bush year-round.     

[wolfbait]

 This "study" shows the wolf as a tool, the same as the spotted owls were used to shut down logging. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A new study suggests that the return of wolves to Yellowstone National Park is beginning to bring back a key part of the diet of grizzly bears that has been missing for much of the past century—berries that help bears put on fat before going into hibernation.
    The report was published today by scientists from Oregon State University and Washington State University in the Journal of Animal Ecology. The researchers found that the level of berries consumed by Yellowstone grizzlies is significantly higher now that shrubs are starting to recover from >"overbrowsing by elk herds"<.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 The berry bushes also produce flowers of value to pollinators such as butterflies, insects and hummingbirds, as well as food for other mammals and birds.

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    The report said berries may be sufficiently important to grizzly bear diet and health that they >"could be considered in deciding whether to change the “threatened” status of grizzly bears under the Endangered Species Act."<

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    “Studies like this also point to the need for an ecologically effective number of wolves,” said co-author Robert Beschta, an OSU professor emeritus. >“As we learn more about the cascading effects they have on ecosystems", the issue may be more than having just enough individual wolves so they can survive as a species.<
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In some situations, we may wish to consider the >"numbers"< necessary to help control overbrowsing, allow tree and shrub recovery, and restore ecosystem health.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



   The study found that the percentage of fruit in grizzly bear scat in recent years almost doubled during August.
    There is precedent for high levels of ungulate foraging causing problems for grizzly bears. Before going extinct in the American Southwest by the early 1900s, grizzly bear diets shifted toward livestock depredation, the report noted, because of lack of plant-based food caused by >"livestock overgrazing".<



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    Increases in berry production in Yellowstone may also provide a buffer against other ecosystem shifts, the researchers noted; whitebark pine nut production, a favored bear food, may be facing pressure from >"climate change".< Grizzly bear survival declined during years of low nut production.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Livestock grazing in grizzly bear habitat adjacent to the national park, and bison foraging in the park, likely also contribute to high foraging pressure on shrubs and forbs, the report said.

In addition to eliminating wolf-livestock conflicts, >"retiring livestock allotments"< in the grizzly bear recovery zone adjacent to Yellowstone could benefit bears through increases in plant foods.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005148318

[wolfbait]

A New Vision For North Cascades -- Environmentalists' Concepts Would Transcend Boundaries http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19931103&slug=1729774


Friedman says a reserve must be big enough to accommodate the ecosystem's most wide-ranging creatures, the grizzly and gray wolf.

"It doesn't matter whose land it is," he says. "The critters don't know."

If people really want to live in greater harmony with the land and other species, Friedman says, it's got to start somewhere - and the North Cascades is a better candidate than most.

[villageidiot]

 This is all great if we lived in the Garden of Eden.  Unfortunately, we have to raise food for ourselves and the wolves eat our food.  When King David was a sheperd boy he killed a lion and a bear to protect his sheep.  We are still raising our food and if we allow wolves to eat our food we are doomed.  This might possibly work in Yellowstone or wilderness areas but the wolves don't know boundaries and our wilderness areas are too small to keep these killers inside.  If they eat our food we need to be able to protect our food same as shooting a rabbit eating our lettuce, gophers eating our carrots.  We can't allow vermin to eat our food.  The city dwellers that worshop the wolves have no concern about the American rancher or farmer that is producing their food with enormous govt. regulations that keep it safe.  They are bringing on the purchase of food from foreign countries that have few to no regulations.  The American rancher and farmer will be forced to break the law if he wants to survive.  If the law prevails every farmer and rancher will eventually be locked up for protecting his crops.  If the farmer prevails then the wolves will dissapear.  I put my bet on the farmers.  They have learned a lot and are making progress on dealing with the wolves without govt. help.

[pianoman9701]

A New Vision For North Cascades -- Environmentalists' Concepts Would Transcend Boundaries http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19931103&slug=1729774


Friedman says a reserve must be big enough to accommodate the ecosystem's most wide-ranging creatures, the grizzly and gray wolf.

"It doesn't matter whose land it is," he says. "The critters don't know."

If people really want to live in greater harmony with the land and other species, Friedman says, it's got to start somewhere - and the North Cascades is a better candidate than most.

Friedman is a wolf hugger. What do we expect him to say? What I don't get is that these people get away with printing this Eco-Utopian crap like it has any bearing whatsoever on present day life.

[Humptulips]

I know they have tall fences around some of the berry farms to keep the elk out.  Haven't heard of the elk eating the actual berries, but they do eat some bushes and trample a lot of bushes.  I know they eat salal bushes, but haven't seen where they eat the actual berry.  Interesting to know.

 

Eating the bushes does the damage. Eating berries is not the problem.

It has been my experience that a certain amount of browsing spurs berry growth.

[Curly]

Sounds like it is time for a Grizzly bear season AND a wolf season.     

[jackmaster]

Sounds like it is time for a Grizzly bear season AND a wolf season.     

damn SKIPPY