45-70 vs??

[syoungs]

Hi all,
 I have wanted a 45-70 for a few years now, mostly for when im pushing the nasty thick crap, want a gun with good knockdown power, open sights, and ive always had a thing for lever actions.

 Im not sure if the 45-70 is to antiquated of round compared to some of the newer stuff I hear about, but I think it would work just fine, and the cartridge will still outshoot my abilities with iron sights.

Does anyone have any commentary towards like a 444 or similar rounds to the 45-70? im not looking for anything fancy when I do buy, held a marlin the other day that seemed to fit the bill pretty good for.

most of its use will be for bear and elk hunting, but when in the real thick stuff when a scope might be a hinderance I guess it would be pulled out for deer as well.

thanks

[Knocker of rocks]

There is a whole new generation of .45-70's out there.  The .444 Marlin is almost the antiquated round, not the other way around.

[syoungs]

hmm... opposite of what the clown trying to sell me a gun at a little shop said, but then again, he didnt have a 45-70 on hand, only a 444.

is it true that to get the best performance from a 45-70 that you have to hand load? or can you get decent performance from factory loads? I know having all the old trapdoor style guns out there could spell disaster with the wrong load it in.

[CedarPants]

Love my Marlin 45-70 with iron sights.  It's tipped over deer for both my wife and I in the NE corner 

[snowpack]

companies like Buffalo Bore make some really powerful stuff for the 45-70, for use with the modern/newer rifles.  Think Hornady Leverevolution stuff is pretty good performance too.

[jrebel]

I love my 45/70....Marling XLR....I shoot 325 grain leverevolution and it is a 300 yard gun all day long.  I do have a scope on it though.  I have shot a deer and a bear with mine and the performance was amazing.  Lots of ammo available for the 45/70 too. 

[bear hunter]

I love levers and hunting with open sight. I have them in .375 ,35Rem ,30-30 ,44mag  ,45-70 ,32 spl ,7mm mag ,and 300mag. I love them all 

[Fl0und3rz]

Here's some gun porn to get you going.



http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,60755.msg752595.html#msg752595

That is good with hot 300 JHP to about 200 yards with open sights.

You don't need to handload to get hot 45-70s, but it would certainly save you a ton of cash, compared to some of the hotter 45-70 loads.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=35

[hillbilli]

been mostly bowhunting since I got to WA, so i havent shot anything with it here, but I load 350gr interlok@1750 (published velocity) as a pretty much general purpose load.. I also sometimes get remington 405gr JSP which is probably the least expensive jacketed bullet available, (there's an inexpensive 300gr rem HP too) i load these 405's to what the book says is 1650fps. the loads that the book says are 1950fps are bordering on abusive. Its a straight wall case and easy to load. Its also pretty common, old cartridge or not- lot more likely to find 45-70 at a random gun store or walmart than any of the other big bore lever gun rounds. (except maybe .44 magnum) i have yet to find an innacurate load, and its pretty easy to load fairly light kicking loads that are still deer capable, or long heavy cast or fmj loads that will go lengthwise through a grizzly..depending on your needs. I've even see folks load a multi-ball .45 round ball -though why I dont really know-home defense?

[yorketransport]

It's hard to beat the 45-70 in a lever gun. The 444 is no slouch, but you need to handload it with heavy bullets to really see the upper end. The 45-70 has lots of factory options covering any application you can think of.

Personally, I think the 45-70 makes a better handgun round.

Andrew

[CAMPMEAT]

450 Marlin has more horsepower than a 45-70. Check the ballistics.

[Knocker of rocks]

450 Marlin has more horsepower than a 45-70. Check the ballistics.

Buffalo bore is showing them as almost a tie

[CAMPMEAT]

450 Marlin has more horsepower than a 45-70. Check the ballistics.

Buffalo bore is showing them as almost a tie

Both good medicine......

[Jonathan_S]

450 Marlin has more horsepower than a 45-70. Check the ballistics.

I don't know if he needs more horsepower though.  A factory loaded .45-70 is more than enough for elk and bear, even moose.  It's got insane penetration capability.  You've got to be a sadistic b@$t@rd to shoot a .45-70 loaded up to the max.

The .45-70 is a freakin beast.  I know the .450 Marlin is flatter and faster but with iron sights who cares, like he said it'll out-shoot him.  Not to mention if he reloads the brass is always going to be affordable and available.

[syoungs]

handloading is no issue, although im just learning how, I now have the presses all set up at my house, and my dad is passing along his knowledge.

I think I will stick with the 45-70, as it is what I have wanted for about 10 years now, after hunting with an old timer that had one, and it will serve its purpose wonderfully.

probably going to just pick up a new marlin, dont know the model numbers off the top of my head, but it was right at 550$, which is about 200 less then I was hoping to spend, figure that will go a ways into getting some loads developed and on the shelf. I dont need nothing to fancy for a brush gun.

[HawkCreek]

450 Marlin has more horsepower than a 45-70. Check the ballistics.

I didn't check ballistics but Garrett has a 540 grain load for the .45-70. Tough to need more power than that.

[CAMPMEAT]

450 Marlin has more horsepower than a 45-70. Check the ballistics.

I didn't check ballistics but Garrett has a 540 grain load for the .45-70. Tough to need more power than that.

\


That's just wrong...............oh god that would hurt.

I have a 450 T/C Encore with a 15 inch barrel w/brake.........................ouch !!!

[HawkCreek]

450 Marlin has more horsepower than a 45-70. Check the ballistics.

I didn't check ballistics but Garrett has a 540 grain load for the .45-70. Tough to need more power than that.

\


That's just wrong...............oh god that would hurt.

I have a 450 T/C Encore with a 15 inch barrel w/brake.........................ouch !!!

Actually it doesn't. I know it sounds like it'd tear your shoulder clean off but the recoil in my Marlin 1895 is a slow push there isn't really any "kick" per say. It's a strange recoil and you know it's powerfull but it doesn't punish like it sounds. But then maybe it's fear and adrenaline that helps me forget the kick heh!

[yorketransport]

450 Marlin has more horsepower than a 45-70. Check the ballistics.

I've had both, and this isn't entirely true. Loaded to similar pressures the 45-70 wins every time. There's just no replacement for case capacity. So if you compare lever gun loads in the 45-70 to the 450 marlin it's a much more accurate debate. Neither one  would qualify as a wimp though!

Andrew

[Alchase]

Hi all,
 I have wanted a 45-70 for a few years now, mostly for when im pushing the nasty thick crap, want a gun with good knockdown power, open sights, and ive always had a thing for lever actions.

Nothing wrong with wanting a 45-70 or a lever gun, but the "myth" of a big bore gun being better then a smaller faster (more common) deer or bear round in heavy timber was dis-proven years ago.

There is something about a lever 45-70 that is just plain sexy though, LOL

[syoungs]

"There is something about a lever 45-70 that is just plain sexy though, LOL"

nailed it!

[PolarBear]

I know from experience (unfortunately)  that a 45-70 will go completely through a house and out the other side with very little expansion!

[coachcw]

I know from experience (unfortunately)  that a 45-70 will go completely through a house and out the other side with very little expansion!

holly crap !

[HighlandLofts]

450 Marlin has more horsepower than a 45-70. Check the ballistics.

I didn't check ballistics but Garrett has a 540 grain load for the .45-70. Tough to need more power than that.

\


That's just wrong...............oh god that would hurt.

I have a 450 T/C Encore with a 15 inch barrel w/brake.........................ouch !!!

I know a guy who used "Bigfoot in heat scent" once and it worked extremely well and he said OUCH too,
 Big feet, big you know what!

[Nosferatu]

My 1895GBL loves the 405gr and 300gr loads from DoubleTap. I've used them on Elk, Whitetail and Mule deer. They shoot way softer than the Buffalo Bore loads and each animal dropped where it stood.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_44&osCsid=ctqq9e0tug7voq4p3d1bbmo1p6

[fly-by]

You will enjoy any of the big bores.  Handloading + cast bullets would allow you to take advantage of the tremendous flexibility they offer and get the cost down to where you can get in some real trigger time.   It also evens the field between the 45-70 and 450 Marlin, both of which have a greater selection of projectiles vs the .444, especially >400 grains.  Scopes with the right reticle can compensate for the loopy trajectory and you can chuck huge lead that is still easy on the shoulder.   One of my favorite loads for my Browning BLR in 450 Marlin is a 500 grain flat nose over a full (uncompressed) case of trail boss.  Just a big shove rather than a kick and it will sail through just about anything even at low velocity. SR-4759 is another good powder for reduced on up to very spicy loads.  If I had it all to do over again I would go 45-70 due to the large number of rifles chambered in it vs the 450.  I just wanted a box mag vs a tube. 

[arees]

Try some of these if the deer is on the other side of a tree and you don't want to wait for it to step out.

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570.html

I have also taken 540 grain bullets built sub-sonic loads that are amazingly quiet and still had impressive penetration.

[PNW_Hunter]

.45-70 is definitely on my list of caliber rifles I need to get! It will do pretty much anything you ask of it!