Edmonds, WA man shot by police while open-carrying rifle

[JoeE]

I bet no more than 20 percent state wide have the cameras. Anyone want to lose some money?

where did you come up with these numbers? 

It's probably less than 20%. And I came up with those numbers by looking at thousands of police cars from multiple jurisdictions over the last ten years.

[floatinghat]

They dont when they dont want something shown.they do happen to have them when they do want to show.And I believe all LE cars have them.

Need to get your facts straight.

Ok,since you know so much why dont you tell us all the facts,and then tell us where you got them facts.In my studies i do get quite a bit of this info.I dont and never have had probs with any type of Le,lived with a fed. cop over in Tacoma when teenager and have a few long time LE friends.theres cops that like them cops that dont like them and the state loves them.lawsuits have steadily been declining since implementing them.the state has spent 12 million on cameras and video equipment,plate scanning equipment etc. hows that for facts?Are they straight? Oh and also the video cams cost about $400 each.And they are installed by the same people that repair there lights,radios,etc.And 20% is actually quite a few,1 out of 5 cars,and when 3 show up at a scene odds are 1 has a camera.

Can you rewrite this it could be interesting.  I get it am and maybe running out to work but I would like to make sure I understand what you are saying.  Without question I am not trying to sound like spelling or grammar police.

[csaaphill]

Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms."

-- Constitutional scholar Joseph Story, 1840
No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.

"The state calls its own violence `law', but that of the individual `crime'"

"Taking my gun away because I might shoot someone is like cutting my tongue out because I might yell `Fire!' in a crowded theater."

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the Atmosphere.

& what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined."

[The disarming of citizens] has a double effect, it palsies the hand and brutalizes the mind: a habitual disuse of physical forces totally destroys the moral [force]; and men lose at once the power of protecting themselves, and of discerning the cause of their oppression.

A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms. [...] the right of the citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible.

[stevemiller]

Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms."

-- Constitutional scholar Joseph Story, 1840
No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.

"The state calls its own violence `law', but that of the individual `crime'"

"Taking my gun away because I might shoot someone is like cutting my tongue out because I might yell `Fire!' in a crowded theater."

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the Atmosphere.

& what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined."

[The disarming of citizens] has a double effect, it palsies the hand and brutalizes the mind: a habitual disuse of physical forces totally destroys the moral [force]; and men lose at once the power of protecting themselves, and of discerning the cause of their oppression.

A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms. [...] the right of the citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible.

Exactly.All you armed forces,LE officers and such know all about this.If the order is unlawful you do not obey without breaking the law. 

[csaaphill]

I am completely Pro-Gun however guys that open carry rifles just to make a point are not helping our situation at all.  they are just trying to be a jack**  Because "Its legal".  There are better ways to get our point across.  And although there is not much detail I am sure the guy probably refused to put his gun down when asked just because "Its legal."  There were some guys in protland doing this earlier this year.

Our forefathers were deemed wackos and sicko's extremists and such, Fighting tyranny will never be looked at as mainstream it will always be looked down upon. It only gains ground when the opposing side is winning and the hip thing to do then.
Waiting around for armed resistance to look cool or accepted in the mainstream is like waiting for Obama to resign it wont happen.
Were never going to look good to those who are anti gun or teetertottering of who to side with.
I think it was Franklen who said if were to hang might as well hang all together rather than one at a time!
To wait for acceptance we might as well cave in then.
Point is when do people disobey and when do people comply? Seems like complying has been done and look at the mess were in sheeples come out of the wood work!
If they'd have complyed at Lexington where would we be?

[pianoman9701]

I am completely Pro-Gun however guys that open carry rifles just to make a point are not helping our situation at all.  they are just trying to be a jack**  Because "Its legal".  There are better ways to get our point across.  And although there is not much detail I am sure the guy probably refused to put his gun down when asked just because "Its legal."  There were some guys in protland doing this earlier this year.

Our forefathers were deemed wackos and sicko's extremists and such, Fighting tyranny will never be looked at as mainstream it will always be looked down upon. It only gains ground when the opposing side is winning and the hip thing to do then.
Waiting around for armed resistance to look cool or accepted in the mainstream is like waiting for Obama to resign it wont happen.
Were never going to look good to those who are anti gun or teetertottering of who to side with.
I think it was Franklen who said if were to hang might as well hang all together rather than one at a time!
To wait for acceptance we might as well cave in then.
Point is when do people disobey and when do people comply? Seems like complying has been done and look at the mess were in sheeples come out of the wood work!
If they'd have complyed at Lexington where would we be?

I don't believe anyone's yet declared war on our government. Open carry is legal in our stat BUT, if you're given an order by an officer to put your firearm down and you refuse, you're a complete idiot. Whether or not the order is legitimate or not doesn't matter and that can be dealt with later. When an armed police officer feels threatened and gives a direct order to do something, you comply and object later.

[Mike450r]

If a person is walking around town with a rifle and a police officer comes up to them and says "Sir,  I would like to ask you a few questions.  Please place the rifle on the ground while we talk"    I do not feel that person is being harassed or denied of any rights whatsoever.

If that person refuses the request, a command to comply with a pistol aimed at center mass is a reasonable response by the officer.  If a threat is perceived after that then lethal force is the next step.

I have no idea how the investigation will end up in this particular case but I really do not feel a person's rights are violated by being temporarily disarmed of a rifle for officer safety in a situation like the one described in the story related to this shooting or the scenario I described above. 

[floatinghat]

If a person is walking around town with a rifle and a police officer comes up to them and says "Sir,  I would like to ask you a few questions.  Please place the rifle on the ground while we talk"    I do not feel that person is being harassed or denied of any rights whatsoever.

If that person refuses the request, a command to comply with a pistol aimed at center mass is a reasonable response by the officer.  If a threat is perceived after that then lethal force is the next step.

I have no idea how the investigation will end up in this particular case but I really do not feel a person's rights are violated by being temporarily disarmed of a rifle for officer safety in a situation like the one described in the story related to this shooting or the scenario I described above.

   how could this be viewed as unreasonable?

[Netminder01]

As was already stated, always follow the LE commands. If they were wrong, take it up with the department after the incident. Proving a point about legality in this fashion hurts our cause and gives ammo to the anti's.

 

[pianoman9701]

As was already stated, always follow the LE commands. If they were wrong, take it up with the department after the incident. Proving a point about legality in this fashion hurts our cause and gives ammo to the anti's.

 

  and apparently, it causes unwanted ventilation. 

[JLS]

As was already stated, always follow the LE commands. If they were wrong, take it up with the department after the incident. Proving a point about legality in this fashion hurts our cause and gives ammo to the anti's.

 

Look at it this way, if they LEO is wrong, sue the chit out of him and his agency and use that money to buy a new gun, support the NRA, or whatever else suits your fancy. 

[csaaphill]

As was already stated, always follow the LE commands. If they were wrong, take it up with the department after the incident. Proving a point about legality in this fashion hurts our cause and gives ammo to the anti's.

 

Look at it this way, if they LEO is wrong, sue the chit out of him and his agency and use that money to buy a new gun, support the NRA, or whatever else suits your fancy.

[JJB11B]

Why would you want to open carry? It attracts attention that none of us need and all these videos of people that go out in public with video camera just to try and aggrevate an officer into making a mistake make me sick. They are distracting Law Enforcement from doing their jobs. I know it is a legal right to open carry and I sometimes do. Generally when I am carrying a large revolver when I am going to the mountains or something. I carry constantly but I prefer to conceal carry. Even in the summer in SE Washington. I just don't understand the point of walking around town with a rifle. Get a life. I hope this shakes out to be legitamite. I hope the injured man recovers. I hope for the officers sake that they were operating within the parameters of the law.

[csaaphill]

Why would you want to open carry? It attracts attention that none of us need and all these videos of people that go out in public with video camera just to try and aggrevate an officer into making a mistake make me sick. They are distracting Law Enforcement from doing their jobs. I know it is a legal right to open carry and I sometimes do. Generally when I am carrying a large revolver when I am going to the mountains or something. I carry constantly but I prefer to conceal carry. Even in the summer in SE Washington. I just don't understand the point of walking around town with a rifle. Get a life. I hope this shakes out to be legitamite. I hope the injured man recovers. I hope for the officers sake that they were operating within the parameters of the law.

because a right not used is a right lost!

[JJB11B]

Im not saying you shouldnt exorcize your right to carry. Im saying you should do so in such a way that you dont attract unwanted attention. Why would you want to walk down the street with a rifle exposed. sling it pointing down under your arm with a jacket over it. I understand your feeling the way you do. I dont think we should have to hide it from people but I would rather not have people calling the police constantly and being stopped by LEO's and having to explain myself. Especially with how edgy LEO's have gotten with the amount of cop killing that has happened in the past several years. I gaurantee that I carry at least as much ammo and firepower in public as most LEO's mine is just concealed.