Your welcome Nez Pierce.

[Simcoe hunter]

Do they sometimes age the deer and elk by hanging them up for 6 to 8 months to prepare for the funeral?

I see quite a few dehydrated non processed deer and elk on the Rez and rotting salmon dumped into ditches on the Rez. Is that part of the emotional and cultural heritage of worshipping mother earth?
quote]

Apparently there is an meat aging issue in the White Swan area as I too have seen carcasses hang for a month.  Special aging process maybe?  I don't know.  Does it enhance flavor?  Not sure I am willing to try.  Would probably be ticketed by WDFW for wastage.

[Special T]

It's a one sided fight, the Indians have nothing to fight for. They have everything they want, they will never lose the rights they have. Our frustrations are probably not even on their radar, they could give two chits what we think. I bet they laugh their butts off when they have a pow pow about this subject.

I think I started a thread that would be to the contrary.  We need to co manage, period.  It's a shared resource regardless of what opinions individuals hold.  We do care and are taking action.

But in order to co-manage we all need to be playing by the same rules.

I respectfully disagree.

How can you successfully co-manage when you clearly have two different agendas? It's simply not possible and history has proven that.

And why would We OR Indians want to with the way the WDFW manages game? If i was Indian i wouldn't want to join the love fest for predators that the WDFW seems to push...

I didn't say anything about WDFW. I think if sportsman of all races agreed on a set of standard playing rules we  would have the authority to force WDFW to listen and not do as they please.

If not the WDFW WHO would enforce/co manage? Its not like we need another agency...
    If you want to be upset at something be upset that only parts of the treaties are being enforced. Colockum elk always talked about it. In most of the treaties (at least the one with the Yakimas) It is illegal for tribal members to drink whiskey, and illegal to supply them with it. Now just because its inconvenient to enforce such a rule or it is not PC does not mean it couldn't be used as leverage for some other kind modification of the agreement/treaty.   The only way that could happen is to force some of the limp noodles in Olympia to do some thing... Tribes will likely changed when they are confronted with a larger problem to deal with, but not until then. Its too bad that we lost Colockum Elk because he seemed to be up on all of the Legalese on the issue.

Now i'm not necessarily for making tribes abide by the same rules as us, HOWEVER i get frustrated now has a hands off approach to tribal issues because even IF WDFW catches them breaking tribal laws the WDFW has to recourse to make sure that the tribe holds them accountable EVEN BY THEIR OWN STANDARD!

[elkaddict652]

That's why I cut their nets during the run, but sshhhh......

[PlateauNDN]

It's a one sided fight, the Indians have nothing to fight for. They have everything they want, they will never lose the rights they have. Our frustrations are probably not even on their radar, they could give two chits what we think. I bet they laugh their butts off when they have a pow pow about this subject.

I think I started a thread that would be to the contrary.  We need to co manage, period.  It's a shared resource regardless of what opinions individuals hold.  We do care and are taking action.

But in order to co-manage we all need to be playing by the same rules.

I respectfully disagree.

How can you successfully co-manage when you clearly have two different agendas? It's simply not possible and history has proven that.

And why would We OR Indians want to with the way the WDFW manages game? If i was Indian i wouldn't want to join the love fest for predators that the WDFW seems to push...

I didn't say anything about WDFW. I think if sportsman of all races agreed on a set of standard playing rules we  would have the authority to force WDFW to listen and not do as they please.

If not the WDFW WHO would enforce/co manage? Its not like we need another agency...
    If you want to be upset at something be upset that only parts of the treaties are being enforced. Colockum elk always talked about it. In most of the treaties (at least the one with the Yakimas) It is illegal for tribal members to drink whiskey, and illegal to supply them with it. Now just because its inconvenient to enforce such a rule or it is not PC does not mean it couldn't be used as leverage for some other kind modification of the agreement/treaty.   The only way that could happen is to force some of the limp noodles in Olympia to do some thing... Tribes will likely changed when they are confronted with a larger problem to deal with, but not until then. Its too bad that we lost Colockum Elk because he seemed to be up on all of the Legalese on the issue.

Now i'm not necessarily for making tribes abide by the same rules as us, HOWEVER i get frustrated now has a hands off approach to tribal issues because even IF WDFW catches them breaking tribal laws the WDFW has to recourse to make sure that the tribe holds them accountable EVEN BY THEIR OWN STANDARD!

It is against Tribal Law to possess, be under or even have empty cans or bottles of intoxicants and/or be intoxicated.  The issues are not ours it's the Cities and Counties.  I've voiced that on here multiple times that we have unsuccessfully challenged the cities/counties/state in Federal Court because we do not hold jurisdiction over non-tribal members on non-tribal land.  County or State roads are utilized to deliver the intoxicants to cities and county licensed businesses on city or co. property and we don't have jurisdiction to enforce our laws on those businesses.  We've tried multiple times in Federal Court but denied each time because jurisdiction.

[PlateauNDN]

Okay, so a show of hands, who is willingly going to give up their firearms?  How about right to vote??? Right to freedom of speech?  Anybody?




I didn't think so.  So tell me, why should I give up my rights?  Yes, I agree there are things that need to be dealt with but, I'm not about to give rights that were secured and paid for by my ancestors just because a few bad apples are ruining it for the rest.  Time will tell how things play out and since at the moment i'm not in a position of making Tribal decisions I have to stick to what I've been doing and providing them with information.  It's what I can do now and hopefully it falls on right ears until someday soon, something is done.

[Special T]

It's a one sided fight, the Indians have nothing to fight for. They have everything they want, they will never lose the rights they have. Our frustrations are probably not even on their radar, they could give two chits what we think. I bet they laugh their butts off when they have a pow pow about this subject.

I think I started a thread that would be to the contrary.  We need to co manage, period.  It's a shared resource regardless of what opinions individuals hold.  We do care and are taking action.

But in order to co-manage we all need to be playing by the same rules.

I respectfully disagree.

How can you successfully co-manage when you clearly have two different agendas? It's simply not possible and history has proven that.

And why would We OR Indians want to with the way the WDFW manages game? If i was Indian i wouldn't want to join the love fest for predators that the WDFW seems to push...

I didn't say anything about WDFW. I think if sportsman of all races agreed on a set of standard playing rules we  would have the authority to force WDFW to listen and not do as they please.

If not the WDFW WHO would enforce/co manage? Its not like we need another agency...
    If you want to be upset at something be upset that only parts of the treaties are being enforced. Colockum elk always talked about it. In most of the treaties (at least the one with the Yakimas) It is illegal for tribal members to drink whiskey, and illegal to supply them with it. Now just because its inconvenient to enforce such a rule or it is not PC does not mean it couldn't be used as leverage for some other kind modification of the agreement/treaty.   The only way that could happen is to force some of the limp noodles in Olympia to do some thing... Tribes will likely changed when they are confronted with a larger problem to deal with, but not until then. Its too bad that we lost Colockum Elk because he seemed to be up on all of the Legalese on the issue.

Now i'm not necessarily for making tribes abide by the same rules as us, HOWEVER i get frustrated now has a hands off approach to tribal issues because even IF WDFW catches them breaking tribal laws the WDFW has to recourse to make sure that the tribe holds them accountable EVEN BY THEIR OWN STANDARD!

It is against Tribal Law to possess, be under or even have empty cans or bottles of intoxicants and/or be intoxicated.  The issues are not ours it's the Cities and Counties.  I've voiced that on here multiple times that we have unsuccessfully challenged the cities/counties/state in Federal Court because we do not hold jurisdiction over non-tribal members on non-tribal land.  County or State roads are utilized to deliver the intoxicants to cities and county licensed businesses on city or co. property and we don't have jurisdiction to enforce our laws on those businesses.  We've tried multiple times in Federal Court but denied each time because jurisdiction.

It doesn't surprise me...
If it against tribal law, what are the enforcement numbers... How many people have been cited for those tribal laws?

This isn't a hate on Indians thing for me... This is an enforcement issue of a contract between the Different Tribes and the Fed Gov... On the Wet side tribes serve booze in casinos, and sell it at tribal owned shops. I am no expert but it would seem highly unlikely that it should be allowed per the treatys...  If one part of a contract is boken that that usually means its up for renegotiation, the WHOLE thing...

I am by no means an expert, and i do not think it is wise to take away any citizens rights. I dislike how the $$$ on BOTH SIDES has corrupted the tribal agreements.

[Green broke]

It's a one sided fight, the Indians have nothing to fight for. They have everything they want, they will never lose the rights they have. Our frustrations are probably not even on their radar, they could give two chits what we think. I bet they laugh their butts off when they have a pow pow about this subject.

I think I started a thread that would be to the contrary.  We need to co manage, period.  It's a shared resource regardless of what opinions individuals hold.  We do care and are taking action.

But in order to co-manage we all need to be playing by the same rules.

I respectfully disagree.

How can you successfully co-manage when you clearly have two different agendas? It's simply not possible and history has proven that.

And why would We OR Indians want to with the way the WDFW manages game? If i was Indian i wouldn't want to join the love fest for predators that the WDFW seems to push...

I didn't say anything about WDFW. I think if sportsman of all races agreed on a set of standard playing rules we  would have the authority to force WDFW to listen and not do as they please.

If not the WDFW WHO would enforce/co manage? Its not like we need another agency...
    If you want to be upset at something be upset that only parts of the treaties are being enforced. Colockum elk always talked about it. In most of the treaties (at least the one with the Yakimas) It is illegal for tribal members to drink whiskey, and illegal to supply them with it. Now just because its inconvenient to enforce such a rule or it is not PC does not mean it couldn't be used as leverage for some other kind modification of the agreement/treaty.   The only way that could happen is to force some of the limp noodles in Olympia to do some thing... Tribes will likely changed when they are confronted with a larger problem to deal with, but not until then. Its too bad that we lost Colockum Elk because he seemed to be up on all of the Legalese on the issue.

Now i'm not necessarily for making tribes abide by the same rules as us, HOWEVER i get frustrated now has a hands off approach to tribal issues because even IF WDFW catches them breaking tribal laws the WDFW has to recourse to make sure that the tribe holds them accountable EVEN BY THEIR OWN STANDARD!

It is against Tribal Law to possess, be under or even have empty cans or bottles of intoxicants and/or be intoxicated.  The issues are not ours it's the Cities and Counties.  I've voiced that on here multiple times that we have unsuccessfully challenged the cities/counties/state in Federal Court because we do not hold jurisdiction over non-tribal members on non-tribal land.  County or State roads are utilized to deliver the intoxicants to cities and county licensed businesses on city or co. property and we don't have jurisdiction to enforce our laws on those businesses.  We've tried multiple times in Federal Court but denied each time because jurisdiction.

It doesn't surprise me...
If it against tribal law, what are the enforcement numbers... How many people have been cited for those tribal laws?

This isn't a hate on Indians thing for me... This is an enforcement issue of a contract between the Different Tribes and the Fed Gov... On the Wet side tribes serve booze in casinos, and sell it at tribal owned shops. I am no expert but it would seem highly unlikely that it should be allowed per the treatys...  If one part of a contract is boken that that usually means its up for renegotiation, the WHOLE thing...

I am by no means an expert, and i do not think it is wise to take away any citizens rights. I dislike how the $$$ on BOTH SIDES has corrupted the tribal agreements.

Special T I get the feeling you are a little more in the "know" than most.

[turkeyfeather]

Okay, so a show of hands, who is willingly going to give up their firearms?  How about right to vote??? Right to freedom of speech?  Anybody?




I didn't think so.  So tell me, why should I give up my rights?  Yes, I agree there are things that need to be dealt with but, I'm not about to give rights that were secured and paid for by my ancestors just because a few bad apples are ruining it for the rest.  Time will tell how things play out and since at the moment i'm not in a position of making Tribal decisions I have to stick to what I've been doing and providing them with information.  It's what I can do now and hopefully it falls on right ears until someday soon, something is done.

Again your comparing our constitution to a treaty. Apples and oranges my friend.

[Special T]

Only because I have a clear understanding of how contracts, politics and $$$ influence works.

I really dislike how Tribes are allowed to line the pockets of WA politicians that only have authority of WA residents and sell us out. Many of these politicians do agreements under the guise that tribes have so much money and are so powerful...

I kinda find it twistedly ironic that "we" are getting worked over by tribes, currently, since so many Indians were duped into trading for beads and whiskey and such.

Fortunately Tribes only seem to pick the low hanging fruit. With the lack of BS regulation tribes could be an economic power house if they went into more competitive businesses. 

[turkeyfeather]

Only because I have a clear understanding of how contracts, politics and $$$ influence works.

I really dislike how Tribes are allowed to line the pockets of WA politicians that only have authority of WA residents and sell us out. Many of these politicians do agreements under the guise that tribes have so much money and are so powerful...

I kinda find it twistedly ironic that "we" are getting worked over by tribes, currently, since so many Indians were duped into trading for beads and whiskey and such.

Fortunately Tribes only seem to pick the low hanging fruit. With the lack of BS regulation tribes could be an economic power house if they went into more competitive businesses. 

I would agree with you on this T. This goes back to what others have said before in regards to the general attitude of just taking the easy path. I dont wanna say all but most natives I have every dealt with are lazy.

[Special T]

Are they Lazy? NOPE!  Likely many just have less drive to excel. If i could make 50k a year and not work too hard so i could spend more time on hobbies I just may do that... ALL people find a comfort level where $X is enough money.  Few people in general have the drive to excel as far as possible.
What you call LAZY may be just the priorities that many Indians have, and are likely very different than yours or mine.

[snowpack]

Only because I have a clear understanding of how contracts, politics and $$$ influence works.

I really dislike how Tribes are allowed to line the pockets of WA politicians that only have authority of WA residents and sell us out. Many of these politicians do agreements under the guise that tribes have so much money and are so powerful...

I kinda find it twistedly ironic that "we" are getting worked over by tribes, currently, since so many Indians were duped into trading for beads and whiskey and such.

Fortunately Tribes only seem to pick the low hanging fruit. With the lack of BS regulation tribes could be an economic power house if they went into more competitive businesses. 

I hear that T, the tribes have an untapped gold mine in regards to manufacturing/business in this state.

Are there some tribal ballots that don't have state/county candidates?  Like if a member lives on the rez?  Kind of curious.

[inchtowntracking]

I know way more natives that get out there and hustle, and set up cameras and scout then I know of lazy ones. 

I know envious Washington hunters that are always worried about what others have, but there is no way I would come out and cry about it since it is just a small group.
 
This is the exact reason I don't post any of the deer or elk I get, only the predators because that is accepted we are able to kill those.

[PlateauNDN]

Okay, so a show of hands, who is willingly going to give up their firearms?  How about right to vote??? Right to freedom of speech?  Anybody?




I didn't think so.  So tell me, why should I give up my rights?  Yes, I agree there are things that need to be dealt with but, I'm not about to give rights that were secured and paid for by my ancestors just because a few bad apples are ruining it for the rest.  Time will tell how things play out and since at the moment i'm not in a position of making Tribal decisions I have to stick to what I've been doing and providing them with information.  It's what I can do now and hopefully it falls on right ears until someday soon, something is done.

Again your comparing our constitution to a treaty. Apples and oranges my friend.

Our Treaties are our Constitution and if you look our Treaties were written in to be honored as any other Agreements with the US Govt and are the "Laws of the Land".  They aren't different if two (2) Nations agreed to them and honor them.

Are they Lazy? NOPE!  Likely many just have less drive to excel. If i could make 50k a year and not work too hard so i could spend more time on hobbies I just may do that... ALL people find a comfort level where $X is enough money.  Few people in general have the drive to excel as far as possible.
What you call LAZY may be just the priorities that many Indians have, and are likely very different than yours or mine.

   I have relatives that are pretty smart and driven but they are in their comfort level and wish not to excel any further in management in their respective fields and that's their choice.  They choose not to be in those positions because of high turnover rates and short employment terms so they choose to remain just below those positions for extended periods of time because they are secure, does that mean they are lazy?  No. 

Sure some are lazy and choose not to do anything but that is a select few not all or most.

It doesn't surprise me...
If it against tribal law, what are the enforcement numbers... How many people have been cited for those tribal laws?

This isn't a hate on Indians thing for me... This is an enforcement issue of a contract between the Different Tribes and the Fed Gov... On the Wet side tribes serve booze in casinos, and sell it at tribal owned shops. I am no expert but it would seem highly unlikely that it should be allowed per the treatys...  If one part of a contract is boken that that usually means its up for renegotiation, the WHOLE thing...

I am by no means an expert, and i do not think it is wise to take away any citizens rights. I dislike how the $$$ on BOTH SIDES has corrupted the tribal agreements.
[/quote]

T, at least over here it is enforced all the time.  A Tribal Member gets pulled over in possession, ticket/jail.  You're seen walking the roads outside of city limits or county jurisdiction, ticket/jail.  DUI, turned over to WSP.  there is zero tolerance here for anything alcohol/drug related.

I can't speak for the westside tribes because I'm not a member from there but, that's their business.

I hear that T, the tribes have an untapped gold mine in regards to manufacturing/business in this state.

Are there some tribal ballots that don't have state/county candidates?  Like if a member lives on the rez?  Kind of curious.
[/quote]

Yes, economic growth/development is vital and from my stand-point I push it as much as I can and there are a lot of things on the table down here but lack of funding has hindered most of them. 

I know way more natives that get out there and hustle, and set up cameras and scout then I know of lazy ones. 

I know envious Washington hunters that are always worried about what others have, but there is no way I would come out and cry about it since it is just a small group.
 
This is the exact reason I don't post any of the deer or elk I get, only the predators because that is accepted we are able to kill those.

   As I said before I was lucky enough to finally draw an OIL tag after years of applying for it but, it will never see the light of day on here because there are so many that would offer their negative    to the conversation that I won't share it here.  I did my homework and it paid off but the story means a lot to me and I'm not going to have it tarnished with negative attitudes.

[turkeyfeather]

Are they Lazy? NOPE!  Likely many just have less drive to excel. If i could make 50k a year and not work too hard so i could spend more time on hobbies I just may do that... ALL people find a comfort level where $X is enough money.  Few people in general have the drive to excel as far as possible.
What you call LAZY may be just the priorities that many Indians have, and are likely very different than yours or mine.

I guess I can agree with that.