Fresh Tracks TV Series Supports The Loss Of Big Game Hunting Opportunities

[WAcoyotehunter]

The Bob and other wilderness limit access to most hunters who cannot access it, so there you go. 

"most" hunters?  Have we gotten to be such a sorry bunch that we cannot access a wilderness area anymore?  Are we really so damn realiant on ATV's that we can't use backcountry?  That's a sad state of things.

[fair-chase]

The Bob and other wilderness limit access to most hunters who cannot access it, so there you go. 

"most" hunters?  Have we gotten to be such a sorry bunch that we cannot access a wilderness area anymore?  Are we really so damn realiant on ATV's that we can't use backcountry?  That's a sad state of things.

Well, not everyone has a magnificent steed such as yours to ride into the wilderness. 

[WAcoyotehunter]

The Bob and other wilderness limit access to most hunters who cannot access it, so there you go. 

"most" hunters?  Have we gotten to be such a sorry bunch that we cannot access a wilderness area anymore?  Are we really so damn realiant on ATV's that we can't use backcountry?  That's a sad state of things.

Well, not everyone has a magnificent steed such as yours to ride into the wilderness. 

haha. I guess youre right. 

[JLS]

The Bob and other wilderness limit access to most hunters who cannot access it, so there you go. 

They limit access if:

A) You don't want to pay for an outfitter or leased livestock

or

B)  You don't want to or can't hike in on your own.

I don't see how this is any more prohibitive than someone not being able to afford or not wanting to pay for leased access, or buying a governor's tag, or buying a bajillion raffle tickets, or buying preference points for 12 years. 

I don't want to pay, so I'll lace up my boots.  If you can't lace up your boots, there are other options.

[bearpaw]

The Bob and other wilderness limit access to most hunters who cannot access it, so there you go. 

"most" hunters?  Have we gotten to be such a sorry bunch that we cannot access a wilderness area anymore?  Are we really so damn realiant on ATV's that we can't use backcountry?  That's a sad state of things.

Not everyone is fit to hike miles into the wilderness. Nice try! Sometimes other people should be considered. 

There is quite enough wilderness that it should satisfy those who prefer to hunt only in wilderness. The fact is that wilderness is not an automatic garden of eden for animals, in fact you will get more production of wildlife herds in logging areas than in overgrown or over aged wilderness.

On top of all that, wilderness and parks today are a place for predators to multiply unchecked except by starvation or competition and dwindle the herds.

[huntrights]

The Bob and other wilderness limit access to most hunters who cannot access it, so there you go. 

"most" hunters?  Have we gotten to be such a sorry bunch that we cannot access a wilderness area anymore?  Are we really so damn realiant on ATV's that we can't use backcountry?  That's a sad state of things.

Not everyone is fit to hike miles into the wilderness. Nice try! Sometimes other people should be considered. 

There is quite enough wilderness that it should satisfy those who prefer to hunt only in wilderness. The fact is that wilderness is not an automatic garden of eden for animals, in fact you will get more production of wildlife herds in logging areas than in overgrown or over aged wilderness.

On top of all that, wilderness and parks today are a place for predators to multiply unchecked except by starvation or competition and dwindle the herds.

 
There are many hunters (young and old) that have disabilities and many that have just grown older and can't hike the hills like they used to.  We should work to keep hunting opportunities open to all people regardless of their physical abilities. 

[WAcoyotehunter]

There is not much wilderness up here.  The Salmo is a tiny piece of Pend Oreille County and lots of hunters enjoy that area.  There are also more cool species of wildlife in that small section of land than there are anywhere else in NE Washington.  A hunt is not about going out and sorting through deer and elk.  Some of us enjoy getting away from logging areas, traffic, other hunters, ATV's,.....  Wilderness areas afford that opportunity.

I watched Pend Oreille County turn into a go-cart track this weekend.  Deer hunters ran the roads ALL DAY long looking for easy deer.  We watched (and reported) one guy shooting a deer off a paved county road.  Those guys are taking more big game hunting opportunity from us than anyone, but the group here tends to support more "access" and more ATV allowances.  It's giving hunters a black eye. 

Guys that actually get off the roads and work for their hunt earn the respect of the non hunting majority.  At what point do we tell the folks that "can't hike" that they can't drive around and break laws either?? 

[RG]

The Bob and other wilderness limit access to most hunters who cannot access it, so there you go. 

"most" hunters?  Have we gotten to be such a sorry bunch that we cannot access a wilderness area anymore?  Are we really so damn realiant on ATV's that we can't use backcountry?  That's a sad state of things.

Yes but, at least for my 50 years of hunting, it's always been the "few" who were willing to go more than a mile from a road, and fewer yet who have ever seen a wilderness area boundary sign.  Nothing much has changed except ATV's have become fancier and roads fewer.  My opinion, fewer roads is a good thing.  Show me your handicapped pass and I'll say you should have the right to use any road with your ATV.  Otherwise get off your lazy *** and go for a walk, or do your road hunting on roads that are open, there are still a whole bunch of those too.  My opinion only obviously.

[huntrights]

 
Every hunter I know will walk a mile or more in, including me, unless they are disabled, or too old or young that they cannot make that journey.  However, walking on "OUR" public roads that are now being closed/decommissioned and have been destroyed by various government agencies to the point where it is hazardous for humans to walk on them, and the game animals we hunt (i.e. elk & deer) prefer NOT to walk them is an issue we should all be aware of.  Many roads are being destroyed by intentionally crisscrossing the trunks and branches of trees along the old road path, ripping up the road to create extremely uneven surfaces (moguls), and dumping large boulders along the path; all of these destructive procedures create hazardous conditions for humans to walk on and ungulates (elk/deer) prefer to walk to the side where the surface is still smooth at the edge.  Many of these destroyed roads have only very steep and virtually impassable terrain on both sides of the road; the road paths are needed for reasonable ingress and egress in hunting areas.

Preserving access to OUR public lands is a growing issue in this state and across the country.  If people are breaking laws on their ATVs, then write them a citation.  Creating conditions where only the most healthy and robust individuals are able to access decent hunting areas will only harm our hunting heritage.

[WAcoyotehunter]

So, do you need a groomed trail or road to hunt??? 

Deer and elk can navigate the woods without roads and made trails just fine.  An obliterated road doesn't block wildlife movements and to call them a "hazard" in the woods is rediculous.  The woods are full of hazards. 

I am generally in favor of obliterating closed roads near streams and riparian areas where they are causing increased sediment imputs.  I don't mind leaving the exisiting closed roads in the upland areas for logging/fire access.

[RG]

 
Every hunter I know will walk a mile or more in, including me, unless they are disabled, or too old or young that they cannot make that journey.  However, walking on "OUR" public roads that are now being closed/decommissioned and have been destroyed by various government agencies to the point where it is hazardous for humans to walk on them, and the game animals we hunt (i.e. elk & deer) prefer NOT to walk them is an issue we should all be aware of.  Many roads are being destroyed by intentionally crisscrossing the trunks and branches of trees along the old road path, ripping up the road to create extremely uneven surfaces (moguls), and dumping large boulders along the path; all of these destructive procedures create hazardous conditions for humans to walk on and ungulates (elk/deer) prefer to walk to the side where the surface is still smooth at the edge.  Many of these destroyed roads have only very steep and virtually impassable terrain on both sides of the road; the road paths are needed for reasonable ingress and egress in hunting areas.

Preserving access to OUR public lands is a growing issue in this state and across the country.  If people are breaking laws on their ATVs, then write them a citation.  Creating conditions where only the most healthy and robust individuals are able to access decent hunting areas will only harm our hunting heritage.

huh?  How did the game animals ever survive all those centuries when they didn't have roads to walk on?  My point about walking a mile and not seeing anybody didn't mean walk a mile on the road.  The reason animals don't use roads is because the guy ahead of you drove his ATV down it.  I have a quad and use it to drive on the open road to the point where I want to start walking.  It saves my pickup from being rattled to pieces.  Then I go somewhere off of and away from the roads and, for some reason, I notice animals hang out there too.  Maybe they didn't see the roads they could have been travelling on or something.  I still say we have too many roads, plenty of them are open for road hunters, the rest can be closed.  They need giant boulders and tank traps on the closed ones or lazy *** people who don't want to get out of the truck will still drive on them anyway.

[huntrights]

So, do you need a groomed trail or road to hunt??? 

Deer and elk can navigate the woods without roads and made trails just fine.  An obliterated road doesn't block wildlife movements and to call them a "hazard" in the woods is rediculous.  The woods are full of hazards. 

I am generally in favor of obliterating closed roads near streams and riparian areas where they are causing increased sediment imputs.  I don't mind leaving the exisiting closed roads in the upland areas for logging/fire access.

I think you are missing my point.  Access to our public lands is a critical component to preserving our hunting heritage.  I said nothing about a "groomed trail". 

Here is what I said:

"Every hunter I know will walk a mile or more in, including me, unless they are disabled, or too old or young that they cannot make that journey.  However, walking on "OUR" public roads that are now being closed/decommissioned and have been destroyed by various government agencies to the point where it is hazardous for humans to walk on them, and the game animals we hunt (i.e. elk & deer) prefer NOT to walk them is an issue we should all be aware of.  Many roads are being destroyed by intentionally crisscrossing the trunks and branches of trees along the old road path, ripping up the road to create extremely uneven surfaces (moguls), and dumping large boulders along the path; all of these destructive procedures create hazardous conditions for humans to walk on and ungulates (elk/deer) prefer to walk to the side where the surface is still smooth at the edge.  Many of these destroyed roads have only very steep and virtually impassable terrain on both sides of the road; the road paths are needed for reasonable ingress and egress in hunting areas.

Preserving access to OUR public lands is a growing issue in this state and across the country.  If people are breaking laws on their ATVs, then write them a citation.  Creating conditions where only the most healthy and robust individuals are able to access decent hunting areas will only harm our hunting heritage."

Yes, a path of some kind is preferred by most humans when given the choice.  Those paths may give us access to our favorite hunting areas and also allow timely packing out of any harvested game.  Yes, some of the road destruction I have seen can be hazardous to humans and ungulates (elk, deer, etc.).  Ungulates are obviously more adapted to traversing the surrounding natural terrain than humans so the road destruction will not have the same effect on them.  I have photos of paths on the smoother surfaces next to destroyed roads that were chosen as the preferred path by the resident wildlife.  Just like people, animals will take the easier path when given the opportunity.

Even a few miles across natural terrain at 45 degree+ inclines over fallen trees and through thick brush can be challenging for the most physically fit hunters; although, elk and deer may make their way better than humans, the more difficult path likely would not be their first choice unless they are escaping from a threat.  Once you have made it into your hunting area, if you harvest an animal, you still must carry it out.  The hunters I met this season adamantly disagreed with the wholesale closing and destruction of roads.   The road paths DO NOT need to be destroyed; there are viable alternatives to road destruction that are ecologically sound while preserving the path for recreational access (i.e. hunting, fishing, hiking, etc.), rescue operations, firefighting, future timber harvesting, etc.

I also spoke to another hunter today who just experienced a closed/decommissioned road who considers himself to be very physically fit.  He also said the road destruction was excessive and very dangerous for anyone to walk on.  The end result of the road destruction is that people lose access to the affected areas; this appears to be the objective whether our government agencies will admit it or not.  How much money is being spent on the needless destruction of roads?

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,139670.0.html

[huntrights]

 
Every hunter I know will walk a mile or more in, including me, unless they are disabled, or too old or young that they cannot make that journey.  However, walking on "OUR" public roads that are now being closed/decommissioned and have been destroyed by various government agencies to the point where it is hazardous for humans to walk on them, and the game animals we hunt (i.e. elk & deer) prefer NOT to walk them is an issue we should all be aware of.  Many roads are being destroyed by intentionally crisscrossing the trunks and branches of trees along the old road path, ripping up the road to create extremely uneven surfaces (moguls), and dumping large boulders along the path; all of these destructive procedures create hazardous conditions for humans to walk on and ungulates (elk/deer) prefer to walk to the side where the surface is still smooth at the edge.  Many of these destroyed roads have only very steep and virtually impassable terrain on both sides of the road; the road paths are needed for reasonable ingress and egress in hunting areas.

Preserving access to OUR public lands is a growing issue in this state and across the country.  If people are breaking laws on their ATVs, then write them a citation.  Creating conditions where only the most healthy and robust individuals are able to access decent hunting areas will only harm our hunting heritage.

huh?  How did the game animals ever survive all those centuries when they didn't have roads to walk on?  My point about walking a mile and not seeing anybody didn't mean walk a mile on the road.  The reason animals don't use roads is because the guy ahead of you drove his ATV down it.  I have a quad and use it to drive on the open road to the point where I want to start walking.  It saves my pickup from being rattled to pieces.  Then I go somewhere off of and away from the roads and, for some reason, I notice animals hang out there too.  Maybe they didn't see the roads they could have been travelling on or something.  I still say we have too many roads, plenty of them are open for road hunters, the rest can be closed.  They need giant boulders and tank traps on the closed ones or lazy *** people who don't want to get out of the truck will still drive on them anyway.

 
I'm just curious how you will feel about road closures and destruction when that road you ride your quad on to get the point you normally walk from is closed and destroyed.  Your walk to your favorite hunting area is no longer a mile or two through the woods, it's more like a 5 to 10+ mile trek.  Most hunters won't be doing that unless they have pack animals.  That's what is happening.  I guess the moral of the story is don't be so quick to buy into road closures and destruction.  It's easy to block roads so motorized traffic cannot enter; it is NOT necessary to destroy them.  If someone still enters with a motorized vehicle, they are breaking the law and can/should be cited.  An analogy would be we don't shut down hunting because there are a few poachers that break the law.  Roads don't need to be destroyed just because somebody finds a way to illegally get their ATV on it.

As access to our public lands is reduced by road closures and destruction, those who use our public lands (hunters, fishermen, hikers, etc.) are forced to congregate in smaller areas and drive to access points from where they walk in if they are able.  This results in the "parking lot" situations that are starting to become common sights.  Some typical camping areas are also closing which makes the problem worse.

It seems many people think closing off access to our public lands is ok until their favorite areas are affected.

My comments aren't about ATVs roaring up and down roads.  My comments are about preserving access to our public lands for all people (young, old, physically fit, or disabled), and for all recreational and commercial purposes.  Closing and destroying our roads is a one-way ticket to NO ACCESS.

[idahohuntr]

My comments are about preserving access to our public lands for all people (young, old, physically fit, or disabled), and for all recreational and commercial purposes.  Closing and destroying our roads is a one-way ticket to NO ACCESS.

We are not losing access to our public lands.  The access just becomes more difficult than when there was a nice 16 foot wide road to walk on.  I don't think all roads should be de-commissioned...but there are many areas in the Lower 48 that I would be thrilled if there were much lower road densities.  We don't need to manage public lands so that everyone can easily access them either...some areas if you are too old, too young, too disabled...tough.  Go somewhere else

[Randy Newberg]

Just in from two weeks of hunting unroaded areas of Colorado and Wyoming.  I guess someone forgot to tell these two elk that unroaded areas of Wyoming are nothing but sterile predator wastelands according to Mr. (loose use of the term) Bridges.  In three days of hunting, we saw 17 bulls, all in walk-in only areas, of which most allowed motorized use of roads for game retrieval, and all on publicly accessible ground.  Lots of hunting pressure down low with plenty of road hunting going on next to the walk-in areas......and very few elk shot there, if any.

First pic is a bull I shot and we are sitting around getting ready for the final loads.  It was three miles from the trailhead and three guys with packs got him out easily in two trips, along with all our piles of hunting and TV production gear.


This pic is a bull my buddy shot the next day.  It died four miles from the trailhead, so the three of us grunted it out in one trip of boned out meat and antlers.  My legs and back may have voted that we split it into two loads.


Found about a three mile unroaded piece in Colorado earlier that week and found 12 bulls in three days of hunting.  Being an OTC unit, I didn't have expectations of big bulls, but there sure were lots of them.  Shot a young 5-pointer on the third morning and we had him packed out to the trailhead by mid-afternoon.

Point being, unroaded areas are not predator wastelands like many claim.  They are where the best hunting can be had.  It is where animals get some age on them, where seasons are longest, and where tags are most available.  Not sure what makes that bad for hunters.  Especially when the majority of acreage in the states of WY and MT are open to motorized access.

I'm 49 years old and I know I have a lot more elk hunts in my rear view mirror than in my front windshield.  I have a strange liver condition that screws up a lot of my hunting days.  I already have one heart attack under my belt.  I understand that not everyone can get to unroaded areas.  Someday, that will apply to me, and probably sooner than I care to admit.

When that time comes, I don't want the great aspects of Montana hunting compromised to accommodate my condition.  The great quantity and diversity of elk hunting opportunity Montana provides is not by accident and not by managing for the lowest common denominator.

In the early 1990's (long before Toby Bridges moved to MT), when motorized access was proliferating, MT FWP held many public meetings seeking comment about how we should adjust our seasons to address this issue and the impact it was having on elk vulnerability.  We were given some choices that went something like this.

Option A - Either continue with proliferation of motorized access and accept that we will eventually have shorter seasons, more limited entry draws, choose your weapon, and other things that would lessen hunter impacts and allow for some elk to survive with highly motorized hunting activity.

OR

Option B - Accept seasonal or permanent travel restrictions and keep our six weeks of archery and five weeks of rifle, do not have to choose our weapons, and continue with most of our state being general units we can hunt with over-the-counter tags.

In all the meetings I attended, it was nearly unanimous that Option B was best.  The support among outfitters was very high, as it was with the public land self-guided hunter.  To this date, Montana has some of the most restrictive travel management plans during hunting seasons, all going back to those meetings 20 years ago.

I don't think it is any accident that we also have the longest elk/deer seasons in the west; the fewest limited entry units; no requirement to choose our weapon; and over-the-counter tags for residents.  We shoot a lot of old bulls in Montana every year, often because these areas allow elk to get old.

Best of luck to all of you.  Headed to northern Arizona next week to hunt elk in another unroaded area.