Lab, Brittany, shorthair... what to do

[washingtonmuley]

Lab

[wildweeds]

On purpose?

I have AKC male English Choc. Lab and AKC GSP female. I was considering breeding together. Thoughts?

[pens fan]

Hmmmmm....upland AND water retriever....smaller......hmmm...

[lghtnquik]

I have a shorthair and he is a great hunting dog but he cannot handle the cold weather duck hunting.
My next dog will be a drathaar.

GSP when you get to that point my friend breeds some of the best. Just sent his female to Germany for breeding. Get ahold of me.

[skinzner]

Another option is a Pudelpointer Heres a link to the breeder where i got my dog. Give Bob a call and chat him up really nice guy. 

http://cedarwoodgundogs.com/

[MLHSN]

What kind of dog is that pen's fan? 

[AspenBud]

JJD you hit the nail on the head... it usually goes lab, lab, lab, gwp, brittany, springer, WPG, etc.

He'd have gotten different answers if he was looking for a specialist upland dog. Once you cross into wanting to do waterfowl and upland the choice can narrow quickly unless a guy is willing to look at more rare and more expensive versatile breeds that may or may not be that much better than a lab.

Any dog is good and as long as it is trained it will get you the birds.

Yes but not every breed is a good fit for every household and not every dog will make a good bird dog. Some could care less about hunting no matter how much money you pour into training.

The only way for a person to form a true conclusion is to go out and buy the dog themselves.

Observing the breeds hunting, being tested, and competing might be a safer start. Just going out and buying can be a setup for failure.

[AspenBud]

Regarding the versatile breeds...

To the OP, something to be aware of. You should ask breeders of versatile breeds about "sharpness." A lot of those dogs were bred to run down and handle fur in addition to feathered animals. If a dog is getting tested under the German system it will likely have more of a taste for fur than lines that aren't. That's not to say those dogs don't make good hunting dogs, they do. But they aren't for everyone and there are things to consider before you buy one.

There are also some large differences between say, a deutsche kurzhaar and a shorthair bred to run in NSTRA trials.

[MLHSN]

This thread has raised more questions then answers for me.  I hope the OP doesn't mind me jumping in with additional questions.  If you do, I can delete to start a new thread.

Key information:

1.  I've never hunted with a dog.
2.  I do a LOT of hiking.
3.  Grouse are usually a target of opportunity during long hikes.

I'm moving up a canyon with property backed by forest service land which I'll probably hike a couple times a week.

Traits I'm looking for in a dog:

1. First and foremost, a family dog.  I have two small children.

2. One capable of going for long hikes and runs with me in varying climates.

3.  One that has enough instinct as to be trainable, by a novice, to be at least a mediocre/novice upland game dog.

In regards to #3,  is this even possible for someone with no gun dog experience?  Would this necessitate paying a trainer thousands of dollars or could someone with the aid of a couple books and videos train a dog to help harvest a few extra birds?

It is hard to filter through all the information out there.  Most all breed specific information appears to extremely opinionated.  Some of you have suggested starting by watching a few dogs at work.  Where can I do this?  Many of you have mentioned field trials and clubs.  Are these open to spectators?  Can I show up and tag along or this kind of awkward?  Just curious, my experience is limited to the number of dog owners I know.  Which limits my data to potentially one or no dogs in some breeds.  That leaves a lot of variance for potential errors caused by the owners and not necessary breed specific issues. 

[AspenBud]

This thread has raised more questions then answers for me.  I hope the OP doesn't mind me jumping in with additional questions.  If you do, I can delete to start a new thread.

Key information:

1.  I've never hunted with a dog.
2.  I do a LOT of hiking.
3.  Grouse are usually a target of opportunity during long hikes.

I'm moving up a canyon with property backed by forest service land which I'll probably hike a couple times a week.

Traits I'm looking for in a dog:

1. First and foremost, a family dog.  I have two small children.

2. One capable of going for long hikes and runs with me in varying climates.

3.  One that has enough instinct as to be trainable, by a novice, to be at least a mediocre/novice upland game dog.

In regards to #3,  is this even possible for someone with no gun dog experience?  Would this necessitate paying a trainer thousands of dollars or could someone with the aid of a couple books and videos train a dog to help harvest a few extra birds?

Do you want the dog to hunt closer to you? Or do you want it to range out? Do you want the dog to retrieve reliably? Do you want a pointer or a flusher?

I've run English Pointers on flat ground, hilly terrain, in mud, in snow, in heat, in temperatures down to 2 degrees, in a couple of blizzards, in rain, in open land, and forested cover that makes the best of us cuss. I've walked them, jogged with them, and even let them pull me down the road while I ride a bike. I've killed pheasants, grouse, and a good number of pen raised quail and chukar over them. The dogs have spent precisely zero days with a trainer, have pointed from day one, don't retrieve very well, they get along great with my kid (who is currently 19 months old), and I get complimented on how well behaved and friendly they are and how good they look just about every time we show up at a dog park. If they aren't running around like their hair is on fire they are probably sleeping on my couch, much to the dismay of my wife.

But before you get excited, those dogs can also run just about any other dog out there into the ground. You will tire LONG before they do. They run and run and run and run and they don't always do so within eye or ear shot. Some lines run bigger than others however and there are even a couple of AKC lines that produce what I would call good "beginner Pointers." But they all have a heavy exercise requirement and I wouldn't hunt one without some way to track it and without an e-collar.

Have I done some training with them on my own? Yes. Have I bought books to learn how to do so? Yes. Have I met up with people involved with field trials who helped me out? Yes. Would sending them to a pro have made them better bird dogs? Probably, but we still managed.

Why did I choose the breed? Long story. But I wanted a dog that could hunt all day, wasn't mean, and was relatively straight forward to train. I saw some Pointers, saw that they have rather dominated their corner of the field trial world for decades, and decided they were for me. What I got were dogs that have seemingly limitless energy, a never quit attitude, a natural point, are durable and adaptable, and have friendly personalities.

They aren't for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned God is an English Pointer.

Disclaimer: What worked for me, may not work for you. You'll have to figure out what works for you.

[LndShrk]

This thread has raised more questions then answers for me.  I hope the OP doesn't mind me jumping in with additional questions.  If you do, I can delete to start a new thread.

Key information:

1.  I've never hunted with a dog.
2.  I do a LOT of hiking.
3.  Grouse are usually a target of opportunity during long hikes.

I'm moving up a canyon with property backed by forest service land which I'll probably hike a couple times a week.

Traits I'm looking for in a dog:

1. First and foremost, a family dog.  I have two small children.

2. One capable of going for long hikes and runs with me in varying climates.

3.  One that has enough instinct as to be trainable, by a novice, to be at least a mediocre/novice upland game dog.

In regards to #3,  is this even possible for someone with no gun dog experience?  Would this necessitate paying a trainer thousands of dollars or could someone with the aid of a couple books and videos train a dog to help harvest a few extra birds?

It is hard to filter through all the information out there.  Most all breed specific information appears to extremely opinionated.  Some of you have suggested starting by watching a few dogs at work.  Where can I do this?  Many of you have mentioned field trials and clubs.  Are these open to spectators?  Can I show up and tag along or this kind of awkward?  Just curious, my experience is limited to the number of dog owners I know.  Which limits my data to potentially one or no dogs in some breeds.  That leaves a lot of variance for potential errors caused by the owners and not necessary breed specific issues.

My suggestion for you would be to get moved and invite some folks over with different dogs and figure out what traits you actually want from the dog.
Every dog is different regardless of breed. I have had two dogs out of the same litter and they were polar opposites. One could not get enough retrieving the other could care less about it.
Lots of homework will be your best friend. When you find things you like find out where they got the dog and go visit the breeder. They usually have a few dogs around to see as well. 

[pens fan]

Boykin spaniel.
Half the size of a lab, twice the heart.
Check them out.
You may be surprised.