FDSB Red Setter pup's

[Don Fischer]

Litter of six male's whelped Oct. 10th. I have judged both the mother and sire last two springs in Walking Shooting Dog stakes, both are exceptional! That is an understatement! Mother, Red Delicious Breelie is AFTCA Region 10 Shooting dog of the Year 2010-2011. Going to see them Nov. 11th and will take photo's if anyone is interested.

http://gundogforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=44624

[AspenBud]

Two things.

1. Don't tempt me.

2. It's nice to see the letters FDSB on here instead or AKC for a change.

[Happy Gilmore]

I think you're supposed to become a sponsor of Hunt-Wa to advertise litters and they go into the sponsor classified section-

[Bmcox86]

Two things.

1. Don't tempt me.

2. It's nice to see the letters FDSB on here instead or AKC for a change.

 

[wildweeds]

Makes no difference of the letters of where they are registered are. I've owned more than one horrible dog with the FDSB paper,Fact is I have one now sired by a HOF CH and out of a CH female.

[KFhunter]

how do these red setters compare to a decent brittany?



this isn't a which is better post but exploring the differences...asking about temperment, training etc do they shut down like a brittany with pressure or will a red setter take more pressure like a lab?   will they settle down in the house/truck ok?


last red setter that looked field line I seen was hanging itself on it's leash after it jumped out the window of a truck after a squirrel - the owner (non-hunter)offered it to me for free 

[Wacenturion]

how do these red setters compare to a decent brittany?



this isn't a which is better post but exploring the differences...asking about temperment, training etc do they shut down like a brittany with pressure or will a red setter take more pressure like a lab?   will they settle down in the house/truck ok?


last red setter that looked field line I seen was hanging itself on it's leash after it jumped out the window of a truck after a squirrel - the owner (non-hunter)offered it to me for free 

Had Red Setters years ago, late 60's through early 80's.  Great little dogs.  Extremely birdy, choke bore noses, and twelve o'clock tails.  What not to like.  Typical loving setter personality in the home, mild mannered in nature, but all business in the field.  I would generalize that typically they are a little more receptive and forgiving than a Brittany in regards to discipline.  But again that varies so much with individual dog's and their respective relationship with their owners.  My Red Setters were on a par mentally with my labs when I field trialed retrievers back when.  However discipline was far more necessary in training a lab than letting a good field bred setter do his thing.  So it's not really a fair comparison.

Great dogs and if I lived in eastern Washington where I could put the time in the field like I used to during bird season, I have another in a heartbeat.


 

[Happy Gilmore]

From watching the Setter trial last year I see them a lot like Brittany's. They either rock and roll or they are duds. Not much in between. I know if I was shopping for either breed I'd be certain to see both the sire and dam work prior to investing in one.

[AspenBud]

how do these red setters compare to a decent brittany?



this isn't a which is better post but exploring the differences...asking about temperment, training etc do they shut down like a brittany with pressure or will a red setter take more pressure like a lab?   will they settle down in the house/truck ok?

This is strictly based on what I've been told by others who own them, not any personal experience, but I think setters, red or otherwise, have a reputation for being softer and lean towards being one man dogs.

Someone wanting a pointing dog that can handle more pressure would be better off looking to Pointers or some of the versatiles.

There's also a reasonable argument to be made saying that the red setter is still evolving. It is an attempt to fix what AKC show breeders ruined with the Irish Setter. You won't see one at Ames any time soon. Take from that what you want.   

last red setter that looked field line I seen was hanging itself on it's leash after it jumped out the window of a truck after a squirrel - the owner (non-hunter)offered it to me for free 

Sadly I don't think that's uncommon. People see a dog, like the look of it or like the novelty, and get in over their head. Of course, some just shouldn't have a dog period.

[Wacenturion]

how do these red setters compare to a decent brittany?



this isn't a which is better post but exploring the differences...asking about temperment, training etc do they shut down like a brittany with pressure or will a red setter take more pressure like a lab?   will they settle down in the house/truck ok?

This is strictly based on what I've been told by others who own them, not any personal experience, but I think setters, red or otherwise, have a reputation for being softer and lean towards being one man dogs.

Someone wanting a pointing dog that can handle more pressure would be better off looking to Pointers or some of the versatiles.

There's also a reasonable argument to be made saying that the red setter is still evolving. It is an attempt to fix what AKC show breeders ruined with the Irish Setter. You won't see one at Ames any time soon. Take from that what you want.   

last red setter that looked field line I seen was hanging itself on it's leash after it jumped out the window of a truck after a squirrel - the owner (non-hunter)offered it to me for free 

Sadly I don't think that's uncommon. People see a dog, like the look of it or like the novelty, and get in over their head. Of course, some just shouldn't have a dog period.

I might agree with your statement if you had said that 30-40 years ago.  I owned these dogs then and as a member of the NRSFTC, I was well aware of where the breed was and the efforts of those to improve it.  In my mind they got there.  Today's Red Setters are more than capable of holding their own against the best.  Here's an excerpt from the National red Setter Field Trial Club..

"Our crowning glory, the legendary victory at Di-Lane Plantation, the 1996 Region 13 Amateur Shooting Dog Championship where Desperado was named champion, his illustrious sire, Bearcat, claiming Runner Up in a field of eighty top Pointers and Setters in their own heartland. With intense pride we acknowledge the late great Bearcat’s record of 158 wins. That beats out all other pointing breeds in the history of American Field trials including the “white dogs”! Incredibly, a Red Setter also holds second place in that category, Abra’s awesome record of 156!"

Maybe not Ames, but certainly the above points out that they have arrived.  Remember field trials and winners are a product of not only dog breeds but more so the financial ability of said owners to campaign their dogs.  Considering the much lower number of "Red" Setters competing against English Pointers and English Setters and what they have accomplished, speaks volumes.     

[Happy Gilmore]

What's the breeders name in Wa that has both show and "FC" titled setters?

pretty much what is wrong with the pointing dog trials in general. Brittany's are a good example and the Setters. They run breed specific trials so they don't have to compete with all the other breeds.

[Wacenturion]

What's the breeders name in Wa that has both show and "FC" titled setters?

pretty much what is wrong with the pointing dog trials in general. Brittany's are a good example and the Setters. They run breed specific trials so they don't have to compete with all the other breeds.

That's exactly why you pick a dog from FDSB trialed and successful lineage.  Those are not just breed specific as I mentioned in the above post.  It is also what the NRSFTC is about, even with their own breed futurities and other trials...all age etc.  These FDSB trials dogs are running against the best in their breed, not Irish Setter types from AKC.  

[Happy Gilmore]

What's the breeders name in Wa that has both show and "FC" titled setters?

pretty much what is wrong with the pointing dog trials in general. Brittany's are a good example and the Setters. They run breed specific trials so they don't have to compete with all the other breeds.

That's exactly why you pick a dog from FDSB trialed and successful lineage.  Those are not just breed specific as I mentioned in the above post.  It is also what the NRSFTC is about, even with their own breed futurities and other trials...all age etc.  These FDSB trials dogs are running against the best in their breed, not Irish Setter types from AKC.

Exactly

[AspenBud]

What's the breeders name in Wa that has both show and "FC" titled setters?

pretty much what is wrong with the pointing dog trials in general. Brittany's are a good example and the Setters. They run breed specific trials so they don't have to compete with all the other breeds.

That's a pretty broad brush you're using there. The wins for varying dogs running in National Shoot to Retrieve Association trials are fairly evenly spread among many breeds, coverdog trials are predominantly setter and Pointer trials but Brittanys have made their way in, and the list goes on.

[Happy Gilmore]

What's the breeders name in Wa that has both show and "FC" titled setters?

pretty much what is wrong with the pointing dog trials in general. Brittany's are a good example and the Setters. They run breed specific trials so they don't have to compete with all the other breeds.

That's a pretty broad brush you're using there. The wins for varying dogs running in National Shoot to Retrieve Association trials are fairly evenly spread among many breeds, coverdog trials are predominantly setter and Pointer trials but Brittanys have made their way in, and the list goes on.

Trying to keep the list short

[wildweeds]

Hah just because you have FDSB dogs from quality parents doesn't guarantee you nothing. I've had a dud from 7X AA ch Tommy B via a Tekoa mountain sunrise granddaughter from HOF CH hicks rising sun,a dud from 5X ch Tekoa mountain patriot out of an CH alamance little rock daughter  and a dud from HOF inductee 4Xch 7X ru ch Tomoka X AA CH Tekoa mountain attitude There has been a common constant to all of the duds and I will not look for any blood from there again. As to the show dog question who cares even a  blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.  Over the course of a long carreer with enough times entered 3 placements for points can be had to squeek in a FC title when the field is small and the field dogs all blow up,I've seen a full blown all show dog place more than once.As to the dual title breeder that would be Setteridges,and yep her FC dog was a full blown field dog and her CH showring dogs are showdogs.I've seen her place the show dogs more than once,not the same dog everytime but nonetheless she does try,has placed and has also gotten the short end of the stick more than once from snooty judges all hung up on run and or tail position.

What's the breeders name in Wa that has both show and "FC" titled setters?

pretty much what is wrong with the pointing dog trials in general. Brittany's are a good example and the Setters. They run breed specific trials so they don't have to compete with all the other breeds.

That's exactly why you pick a dog from FDSB trialed and successful lineage.  Those are not just breed specific as I mentioned in the above post.  It is also what the NRSFTC is about, even with their own breed futurities and other trials...all age etc.  These FDSB trials dogs are running against the best in their breed, not Irish Setter types from AKC.

[jetjockey]

What's the breeders name in Wa that has both show and "FC" titled setters?

pretty much what is wrong with the pointing dog trials in general. Brittany's are a good example and the Setters. They run breed specific trials so they don't have to compete with all the other breeds.

Actually, Brits run breed specific trials because they can.  The ABC is the one breed that hasn't splintered off into several other groups to run their dogs.  Because of that, they don't need to open their trials to other breeds to fill entry's.  The smaller Brit clubs that do have trouble filling trials, open them to all breeds.  The EP's, Setters, and GSP's all have two seperate AF and AKC clubs they can run under.  In the ABC, AF and AKC combine to dual sanction the Championships.  Because of that , the trials are often much bigger than what you'd see in AKC setter, Pointer, and GSP trials.  We also don't screw with OLAA trials like many of the clubs.  You either compete, or you don't.  If You want to run your  10X AF Ch, FC/AFC in regular open trials, feel free.  The other breeds will often pull their titled dogs to give non titled dogs a chance at their FC or AFC.  That doesn't happen in the Brit world. We often have 60-80 dogs entered in our 1 hour championships.  In the AKC Pointer and Setter world, you'd be lucky to get 25 entered in their Nationals.  If you combine our GD and AA National entry's, you typically have well over 120 entry's between the two.  God knows how many we would have if most of the Pros didn't skip the GD Nationals altogether. 

[AspenBud]

What's the breeders name in Wa that has both show and "FC" titled setters?

pretty much what is wrong with the pointing dog trials in general. Brittany's are a good example and the Setters. They run breed specific trials so they don't have to compete with all the other breeds.

That's a pretty broad brush you're using there. The wins for varying dogs running in National Shoot to Retrieve Association trials are fairly evenly spread among many breeds, coverdog trials are predominantly setter and Pointer trials but Brittanys have made their way in, and the list goes on.

Trying to keep the list short

Not really, between American Field, it's subsidiary organizations, and the NSTRA you cover a good number, if not the majority, of pointing dog field trials run in this country. I suppose I could also throw the NBHA into the mix along with others but I don't see any reason to. Your statement wasn't really correct, it may apply to AKC, but outside that world...

I've seen a variation of this argument from shorthair owners with regards to coverdog trials, only generally they complain of breed bias and say because their dogs don't have tails they can't win. They frequently sputter when someone mentions a dog named Wambli, a Brittany, that cleaned house and beat setters and Pointers in that world. If a dog is good enough under the guidelines of the trial venue it will win regardless of breed.

[AspenBud]

Hah just because you have FDSB dogs from quality parents doesn't guarantee you nothing. I've had a dud from 7X AA ch Tommy B via a Tekoa mountain sunrise granddaughter from HOF CH hicks rising sun,a dud from 5X ch Tekoa mountain patriot out of an CH alamance little rock daughter  and a dud from HOF inductee 4Xch 7X ru ch Tomoka X AA CH Tekoa mountain attitude There has been a common constant to all of the duds and I will not look for any blood from there again. As to the show dog question who cares even a  blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.  Over the course of a long carreer with enough times entered 3 placements for points can be had to squeek in a FC title when the field is small and the field dogs all blow up,I've seen a full blown all show dog place more than once.As to the dual title breeder that would be Setteridges,and yep her FC dog was a full blown field dog and her CH showring dogs are showdogs.I've seen her place the show dogs more than once,not the same dog everytime but nonetheless she does try,has placed and has also gotten the short end of the stick more than once from snooty judges all hung up on run and or tail position.

What's the breeders name in Wa that has both show and "FC" titled setters?

pretty much what is wrong with the pointing dog trials in general. Brittany's are a good example and the Setters. They run breed specific trials so they don't have to compete with all the other breeds.

That's exactly why you pick a dog from FDSB trialed and successful lineage.  Those are not just breed specific as I mentioned in the above post.  It is also what the NRSFTC is about, even with their own breed futurities and other trials...all age etc.  These FDSB trials dogs are running against the best in their breed, not Irish Setter types from AKC.

Nothing is ever guaranteed, you only increase your odds of a good outcome by buying from proven lines... and not every female is a blue hen.

I still think you should look at this kennel wildweeds.

http://www.firesidesetters.com/fireside_kennels_working_aug_11_2013_003.htm

Or

http://www.bergbrossetters.com/

On the last one, at the very least Scott Berg has a wealth of info in the setter world if you haven't ever communicated with him before.

[Don Fischer]

Wow, been busy. I'll tell you guy's what, there is no way I'd been considering a red setter until I watched Breelie and Robert run, two years in a row. I don't know about the background of either and I don't care. What I know is what both parent's showed me two years in a row. I think you don't see many around the north west because there aren't a lot of them here. And one has never been to Ames either but other than e setter's and pointer's what breed ever has? I re-call reading on the red Setter Field Trial clubs web site about a run off between a Red Setter and the current, then, Nat Ch E. Setter. The red setter wiped it's eye pretty badly.  http://nrsftc.com/  Here's part of it.

People were not much different then than they are now. Soon hot debate ensued among the sportsminded as to the merits of imported purebreds versus the native setters. The question was settled in 1879 in a famous duel between imported Gladstone, the top blueblood English Setter of the day, and the native Irish Red Setter, Joe Jr., America’s own top brag dog. Joe was a product of the celebrated and fiercely competitive Campbell kennels of Tennessee , a son of imported Elcho and the Irish/English crossbred, Buck Jr. He was red with a white blaze and white rear toes and a registered Irish Setter (which America was calling the breed). Both champions performed admirably for three days of intense competition in the foulest of weather conditions.  Joe emerged victorious, on  but three good legs from a second day injury, by a score of  61 finds to 52. A native Irish Setter had proven to be the best field trial dog in America!

Almost to late anyway. Got an e-mail from Craig and only one left. A member here is getting one, he get's #4 and a guy from Utah get's #5. I'm going up to see the pup's next Monday and I'll get photo's and post some. I love getting a new pup but this one has got me cranked!

[Don Fischer]

Makes no difference of the letters of where they are registered are. I've owned more than one horrible dog with the FDSB paper,Fact is I have one now sired by a HOF CH and out of a CH female.

You couldn't be more wrong. At one point the Irish Setter Club of America, AKC, refused to let AKC register the Red and White Setter or the Red Setter. Problem was they couldn't compete with them in trials! They can be cross registered today. I have two E. Setter's right now, both FDSB. I would not consider an AKC dog unless it had been cross registered from FDSB.

[Wacenturion]

Makes no difference of the letters of where they are registered are. I've owned more than one horrible dog with the FDSB paper,Fact is I have one now sired by a HOF CH and out of a CH female.

You couldn't be more wrong. At one point the Irish Setter Club of America, AKC, refused to let AKC register the Red and White Setter or the Red Setter. Problem was they couldn't compete with them in trials! They can be cross registered today. I have two E. Setter's right now, both FDSB. I would not consider an AKC dog unless it had been cross registered from FDSB.

Thank you....world of difference between the dogs in FDSB trials and AKC trials.....way back when and now. 

[jetjockey]

The problem is some people think AKC is the end all be all for trial dogs.  Many don't even know what AF is?

[Happy Gilmore]

The problem is some people think AKC is the end all be all for trial dogs.  Many don't even know what AF is?

Is this really shocking? The last AF event I saw had about 9 dogs entered. The AKC Championship trial had 20+ in the open stake. Doesn't take rocket science to see why.

[jetjockey]

The problem is some people think AKC is the end all be all for trial dogs.  Many don't even know what AF is?

Is this really shocking? The last AF event I saw had about 9 dogs entered. The AKC Championship trial had 20+ in the open stake. Doesn't take rocket science to see why.

Honestly...  Ya..  It is shocking.  The AKC Setter and Pointer NC's are considered a joke by the AF crowd.  There is a reason Ames is considered the Super Bowl of field trials.  When you get to the big leagues, you don't spend $300+ on entry fees unless you know you can win.  There aren't many dogs who can win AF CH stakes...

[Bmcox86]

 

[wildweeds]

Don my comment wasn't directed specifically at Red or Irish setters, There is but about one kennell only to get a true  field irish setter from which is Celtic,it's  not too amazing that the lawyer Paul Ober found a loophole that the Irish show  folks didn't have the foresight to get shut.And actually the fountainhead of the revival of the Irish/Red setter in the early years of rebuilding what was lost due to breeding for earsize and color  was none other than NC Mississippi Zev an english setter.Had the revitalizers just kept their mouths shut about what they were doing(like the shorthair folks have done) it would be a non issue with the rift between Red and Irish and Red/white.
My ES are cross registered as well.

Makes no difference of the letters of where they are registered are. I've owned more than one horrible dog with the FDSB paper,Fact is I have one now sired by a HOF CH and out of a CH female.

You couldn't be more wrong. At one point the Irish Setter Club of America, AKC, refused to let AKC register the Red and White Setter or the Red Setter. Problem was they couldn't compete with them in trials! They can be cross registered today. I have two E. Setter's right now, both FDSB. I would not consider an AKC dog unless it had been cross registered from FDSB.