Rumor of illegal spikes taken in the Colockum

[RockChuck]

I agree, the true spike rule is tough it seems a lot of the 1x2 are getting shot and left to waste when with a normall spike only rule they would be legal and taken home, they are getting shot either way.

[Easy-E]

I know this is not a very good picture, but it does make a point. The bull on the right was shot in a normal spike unit, but notice the little kicker on the antler. This was legally a 1x2, and would be illegal in a true spike unit. This bull was shot at 35 yards in dark timber with heavy rain during a modern firearm season, and there was no way to tell that this was anything but a legal spike until we walked up on the dead animal. The kicker point was just over 1 inch.

At the risk of hijacking this thread and making this a hunter ethics discussion, I'll mention this:

About 10 years ago, I asked a couple of game wardens what to do when something like this happens where its a potential game violation. Both said, in that situation, that they would not turn themselves in, that its self incrimination to do so, and in sense its a relinquishment of your rights (you're confessing to a violation), and whether or not you would get a ticket for it was highly dependent on the game warden dispatched to check out the situation. They did say, however, not to try and hide it or to be deceptive, but that if you were caught, fess up to it quickly, explain the circumstances, and be repentent and cooperative, while indicating that you didn't want to let the meat go to waste. If you're not caught, you've got the meat; if you are caught, you've notched your tag, and may get a ticket (depending on the game warden), and may or may not get to keep the meat. If your intent is to turn it in to keep on hunting without having to notch your tag, well, then I guess you're potentially buying another chance for $80.

I suspect that this situation applies where a hunter has exceeded a marginal grey zone; not for blatant irresponsibility or violations that could appear as poaching (i.e. mistaking a 6x6 for a spike wouldn't hold much water).

For what its worth....

Cheers!

[winshooter88]

I wouldn't expect the true spike rule to be changed any time soon. The WDFW already knows that 1
x2s will be killed and they still stand by the true spike rule. When he was asked at a meeting this year if the rule was ever going to go back to regular spike only rules, Dave Ware's answer was "not in your lifetime".

[headshot5]

I wouldn't expect the true spike rule to be changed any time soon. The WDFW already knows that 1
x2s will be killed and they still stand by the true spike rule. When he was asked at a meeting this year if the rule was ever going to go back to regular spike only rules, Dave Ware's answer was "not in your lifetime".

Well die already so the rule can get changed....     Sorry bad joke.

[C-Money]

I wouldn't expect the true spike rule to be changed any time soon. The WDFW already knows that 1
x2s will be killed and they still stand by the true spike rule. When he was asked at a meeting this year if the rule was ever going to go back to regular spike only rules, Dave Ware's answer was "not in your lifetime".

So....they sugar coat the implement of the true spike rule with a "3 year study"  but never intended to go back or make a change for the better? Sounds like WDFW logic at work.

[bobcat]

"True spike" is the dumbest thing ever. If it's so bad that they need to resort to something so ridiculous, they simply need to shut the season down.

Make it a permit only spike hunt. Or, shut down the stupid true spike general season and increase the bull permits accordingly.

Do any other states have "true spike" elk hunts? I seriously doubt it. What a joke. 

[Curly]

Yeah, they apparently know how dumb it is if they are allowing people who shoot a non-true spike to self report and only get a slap on the wrist.  They don't allow that with shooting a 2-pt mule deer......

[jstone]

True spike might be stupid? BUT you still need to know what you are shooting at, Right? If i see a mulie in a three point or better or even a spike elk in a true spike area and i am not positive its legal i walk away.

[Easy-E]

True spike might be stupid? BUT you still need to know what you are shooting at, Right? If i see a mulie in a three point or better or even a spike elk in a true spike area and i am not positive its legal i walk away.

I think this is the rub. Being able to distinguish a true spike vs. a 1x2 is next to impossible unless you have a very close, wide-open, standing-still shot, where the bull has turned his head a couple of times to give you a good look at both antler tips. And even then, seeing a 1-inch point is next to impossible. I could not hunt in a true spike unit. It would be too frustrating.

[Rainier10]

True spike might be stupid? BUT you still need to know what you are shooting at, Right? If i see a mulie in a three point or better or even a spike elk in a true spike area and i am not positive its legal i walk away.

I think they made the rule so that people would have to take extra time and that in itself would save a few more even true spikes that won't hang around that long.  Of course it is not really saving a lot of spikes as many 1x2's are getting left to rot because people don't take the time to verify what they are shooting.

I think the rule is a tough one but I would rather hunt true spikes than have them close the area down.  For a lot of guys it is just tradition to go to the Colockum every year set up camp, talk about the old days around the camp fire and take their rifle or bow for a walk each morning.  At least you can still hunt it if you want and if the rules are too strict there are other areas to hunt that are more appealing.

[howlow]

well on another note so if they want more spikes to survive why have so many cow permits that have a possible bull inside her.   I saw a few elk dead this year in the clockum and looked to be cows and I was thinking maybe archery and they could not find them.  It was sad to see so many in this area and if shot during archery the guys did spend enough time looking for them!!!

[C-Money]

After seeing all the chaos that went on up there this year....I am getting closer to agreeing on permit only elk hunting in the Colockum. What a zoo!

[Rainier10]

well on another note so if they want more spikes to survive why have so many cow permits that have a possible bull inside her.   I saw a few elk dead this year in the clockum and looked to be cows and I was thinking maybe archery and they could not find them.  It was sad to see so many in this area and if shot during archery the guys did spend enough time looking for them!!!

They are looking to downsize the herd so they gave out a ton of cow tags to the archery, muzzleloader and rifle guys.  I think there are hunters in all three user groups that are guilty of hitting elk and not finding them, not just one user group.

None the less it is sad to see a wasted animal whatever the cause of death.

[Justin7mm]

I used to hunt elk in the Colockum and my sentiments were the same as many of you.  I thought that true spike regulations were a desperation measure.  I also knew that many more illegal animals would be taken becuase of its strictness.  I talked with a wildlife biologist for the area though and i will admit his facts were hard to argue with.  After we were done exchanging emails and phone calls i felt kind of ignorant about the whole thing.  in any case, here is what he had to say

Elk hunting in the Quilomene has been restricted since the first season in 1927-28 (11- 12 day season).  In 1929 the season became “Bull only”.   In 1994, all branched bull hunting became permit only.  Any changes involved extensive public input.  The goal of WDFW for most elk herds in eastern Washington is 12-20 bulls per 100 cows post-season and <50% overall bull mortality. The Colockum herd was not close to meeting either objective.  The bull ratio had averaged just 6 bulls per 100 in the Colockum and appeared to be declining.  Due to high road density and open terrain, almost all legal yearling bulls are being harvested. In 2008, we asked hunters their opinion on Colockum elk management.  Of those responding to the on-line questionnaire, only 18.6% wanted status quo.  The vast majority recognized the problem and wanted either a permit only season for spike bulls or a “true spike” season.  At public meetings in Wenatchee and Tri-Cities no one spoke on behalf of status quo. While you may not have supported “True-Spike”, the majority of your fellow sportsman did.
 
Based on data provided by successful hunters, approximately 22% of the yearling bulls harvested have branching on at least one antler.  We believed that we could reach our bull objectives with the true spike definition.  The percentage of yearling bulls making it through the season has increased from 18% to 40% under True-spike. The total recruitment of yearling bulls has been at reached record highs, despite relatively low total yearling bull numbers. If illegal harvest was high, we would not be seeing so many spikes making it through the general season. 


From a second email

“True-spike” is working, at least in terms of increasing the number of bulls escaping general season. Under spike-only the average number of yearling bulls seen on winter range was ~80.  The last 3 years we’ve averaged 146 (record 164 in winter 2013).  The bull ratio has increased to 10:100. Given the cow portion of the herd is over objective, the actual bull numbers are pretty good.  I expect we will reach the goal of 12:100 on winter range during our March 2014 surveys.  Recruiting more yearling bulls is just part of the overall picture.  Branched bull mortality is a big question.  Tribal harvest? Poaching?  How many branched bulls are they wintering outside the survey area?  Reducing road density and limiting access to winter range are 2 possible solutions to reducing adult bull mortality.  However, some individuals do not support limiting human use and have been successful in getting riders into budget bills prohibiting WDFW from reducing road density. The partial winter range closure may also be eliminated.  WDFW does intent to radio bulls this summer/fall to help answer some of the questions.  In the interim, expect bull permits to increase.  The recommendation for 2013 was the same as 2012.  Somehow a mistake was made and only 2 modern bull permits (1 early, 1 later) were issued.           

So i guess if after all this information if you still don't like it, there are only really two roads.  Quit hunting in the Colockum or get on the permit only band wagon.  WDFW probably realizes some 1x2's will get shot in the process, but they are only really concerned with the end result which appears to be more bulls on the winter range and being more in line with their herd objectives.

[turkeydancer]

Talked with a female warden from Snohomish area Wed Oct 30th in the Lilttle Naches area.  All the regular wardens from there were up in the Clock due to cows and other than true spike kills (at least 7 of those).

She was in the Naches  investigating the 3 x 3 bull killed with out a any bull permit, and one arrest was made on someone who shot a 2x2 bull and tried sawing off a point to make it a 1x2.