Salmon, Idaho's 1st Annual Wolf & Coyote Derby, Dec 28-29

[bearpaw]

I personally think these derbies do more harm than good.  You can bet your bottom dollar that this derby will be a tremendous revenue generator for pro-wolf and anti-hunting groups.

Not to mention, the purpose of the education efforts from the event sponsors was for hydatid disease, which really is not a pressing issue in terms of wolf management.  They could at least focus on true conservation education and not try to perpetuate fear from a disease that is pretty much a non-factor in the human world.

The cost-benefit analysis is off the charts (to the wrong end) on this one.

I think you've drank the F&G wolf lover's koolaid to think that hydatid disease is no danger to humans. People who have had the disease, their opinion would likely differ. I have personally found what appears to be E. granulosus tapeworm cysts on a Washington moose liver last year and numerous other infected ungulates have been found in the NW since the introduction of Canadian wolves. Like it or not Echinococcosis is a real threat, there are already two human cases in Idaho, but that has been pretty well covered up so people won't be opposed to wolves.

[Special T]

I actually like the idea of how the derby was done in NE Wa where you got raffle tickets on the NUMBERS of coyotes you brought in over a longer period like a month. I think it probalby does a better job of putting the smack down on the dogs.  Good for ID I hope the smoke a whole pack!

[bearpaw]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19901399
Echinococcus granulosus in gray wolves and ungulates in Idaho and Montana, USA.

Foreyt WJ, Drew ML, Atkinson M, McCauley D.

Abstract
We evaluated the small intestines of 123 gray wolves (Canis lupus) that were collected from Idaho, USA (n=63), and Montana, USA (n=60), between 2006 and 2008 for the tapeworm Echinococcus granulosus. The tapeworm was detected in 39 of 63 wolves (62%) in Idaho, USA, and 38 of 60 wolves (63%) in Montana, USA. The detection of thousands of tapeworms per wolf was a common finding. In Idaho, USA, hydatid cysts, the intermediate form of E. granulosus, were detected in elk (Cervus elaphus), mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus), and a mountain goat (Oreamnos americanus). In Montana, USA, hydatid cysts were detected in elk. To our knowledge, this is the first report of adult E. granulosus in Idaho, USA, or Montana, USA. It is unknown whether the parasite was introduced into Idaho, USA, and southwestern Montana, USA, with the importation of wolves from Alberta, Canada, or British Columbia, Canada, into Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming, USA, and central Idaho, USA, in 1995 and 1996, or whether the parasite has always been present in other carnivore hosts, and wolves became a new definitive host. Based on our results, the parasite is now well established in wolves in these states and is documented in elk, mule deer, and a mountain goat as intermediate hosts.

[MLBowhunting]

Hey bearpaw do you have the numbers of yotes taken during thd derby?

[bearpaw]

Utah has produced information to help reduce the spread of the disease:
http://health.utah.gov/epi/fact_sheets/echino.pdf

Who gets echinococcosis?
Anyone can get echinococcosis by swallowing the eggs of the E. granulosus or E. multilocularis tapeworm.
Echinococcal infections among humans occur worldwide, although they are rare. The primary areas where E.
granulosus has been found in North America include sheep-raising regions of Utah, California, Arizona and New
Mexico. The primary areas where E. multilocularis has been found in North America include the north central
region from eastern Montana to central Ohio, as well as Alaska and Canada.

How is echinococcosis spread?
Dogs, coyotes, wolves, dingos and jackals get infected with E. granulosus when they eat the viscera of infected
sheep or other animals. Once they become infected, they will pass the eggs in their stool. These very tiny eggs are
directly infectious to other animals and humans.

How soon after exposure do symptoms appear?
Because the cysts are usually slow-growing, infection may not produce symptoms for years. Symptoms usually
reflect the size and location of the cysts.

How is echinococcosis diagnosed?
Echinococcosis is diagnosed by a blood test that can detect the presence of antibodies to the parasite. The disease
may also be diagnosed by directly identifying the parasite in fluid or tissue samples.

What is the treatment for echinococcosis?
Surgery is the most common form of treatment for echinococcosis. Removal of the cyst may not be 100%
effective, and medication may be necessary to keep the cyst from growing back.

If in an area where E. multilocularis is found, take the following precautions:

- Don't touch a wild canine, dead or alive, without wearing gloves.
- Don't keep wild canines as pets or encourage them to come close to your home.
- Don't allow your cats and dogs to wander or to capture and eat rodents.
- If you think that your pet may have eaten rodents, consult your veterinarian about the possible need for
preventive treatments.

Cystic echinococcosis - Kist hidatik (subtitle in English)

[bearpaw]

Update on Derby:

Idaho For Wildlife Predator Derby results

 By Steve Alder, Director for Idaho for Wildlife
 December 29. 2013 5:05 PM

 ZERO wolves were harvested during this predator derby! 21 Coyotes were taken.

 We had 236 hunters in the field for two days. Let this be an educational moment for the radical anti-hunter environmental groups. Sport hunting for wolves is not a very effective tool to manage wolves. This is why IDFG has implemented trapping and other control methods to better manage wolves. World renowned wolf expert Dr. David Mech has admitted, "That to hold a wolf population stationary it requires an annual take of 28-50% per year." Dr. Mech also stated that “Normal regulated public harvest such as is contemplated in the NRM is usually unable to reduce wolf populations. IDFG’s own 2011 Idaho IDFG Predation management Plan for the Lolo and Selway Elk Zones that isn't being followed claims, “Wolf removal rates of 30-35% or less typically do not cause any long-term changes in wolf abundance, while sustained removals of 40% or more may cause long-term reductions.” I can assure you that in the last two days while this derby was taking place, more wolves and wolf pups died in Idaho’s back country due to starvation and or cannibalism from other wolves due to the depleted prey base. Since the well being of wolves is predicated on the ungulate prey base, once that prey base is eliminated, the wolves will kill themselves off or starve. They do not self regulate. The urbanites and wolf advocates need to understand the ungulate prey base controls wolves. Wolves do not control the prey. This is why wolves must be controlled and yes killed!

 Attached are elk hunter harvest graphs in the vicinity of where the Salmon wolf derby took place. These graphs contain elk harvest numbers from 1989-2012. This data reveals why Salmon Sportsmen are frustrated with the damages caused by wolves. The average Salmon medium household income is approximately $12,000 below the average Idaho income. In 2009, the income of Salmon residents was 35.5% below the national poverty level.

 Elk are very important to rural Idahoans. Sustenance hunting is still very crucial to those who are financially strapped. The Attached PDF, (Wolves) contains a 2009 study that suggests wolves are costing Idaho approximately 7-24 million per year in revenue. Idaho Fish and game revenues are down considerably for this reason. It is estimated that each elk provides an average of $750.00 in value to Idahoans.

 We want to apologize in advance to the radical anti-hunting enviro’s. We will not be publishing or flaunting any photos of dead animals so you can exploit this opportunity to play upon the emotions of the naïve for your next fund raising campaign.

Good hunting,
Steve

[JLS]

Like it or not Echinococcosis is a real threat, there are already two human cases in Idaho, but that has been pretty well covered up so people won't be opposed to wolves.

Of course, everything is a cover up to validate your opinions?


http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2014/chapter-3-infectious-diseases-related-to-travel/echinococcosis

I didn't say it isn't dangerous.  Note the US isn't even mentioned in the WHO report?  Sure it's here, but people aren't dying left and right from it.  Personally, I'd be much more concerned about Bubonic Plague.

[idahohuntr]

I personally think these derbies do more harm than good.  You can bet your bottom dollar that this derby will be a tremendous revenue generator for pro-wolf and anti-hunting groups.

The cost-benefit analysis is off the charts (to the wrong end) on this one.

[idahohuntr]

We want to apologize in advance to the radical anti-hunting enviro’s. We will not be publishing or flaunting any photos of dead animals so you can exploit this opportunity to play upon the emotions of the naïve for your next fund raising campaign.

Good hunting,
Steve

What a moron.  He clearly acknowledges the ill-effect of this publicity stunt...but thinks not posting photos from the event will keep anti's from exploiting this derby for fundraising purposes?  Thats a level of stupid I have a hard time comprehending.

[bearpaw]

We want to apologize in advance to the radical anti-hunting enviro’s. We will not be publishing or flaunting any photos of dead animals so you can exploit this opportunity to play upon the emotions of the naïve for your next fund raising campaign.

Good hunting,
Steve

What a moron.  He clearly acknowledges the ill-effect of this publicity stunt...but thinks not posting photos from the event will keep anti's from exploiting this derby for fundraising purposes?  Thats a level of stupid I have a hard time comprehending.

Regarding your first sentence, perhaps you should look in a mirror, if you had the intellect you think you do you might see the point that they have made. I'll let you ponder on that one. 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

 A couple quotes in your article stand out Dale.

ZERO wolves were harvested during this predator derby! 21 Coyotes were taken.

 
Maybe what this really proves is coyotes are a much more pervasive and bigger problem than wolves will ever be. Coyotes are smaller and mostly solitary creatures so are much harder to find than a pack of wolves if wolves were in the area being hunted.  The fact that 21 coyotes were taken and zero wolves tells me that coyotes are way more of a problem than wolves in this area.  The results also tell me that having this hunt blasted all over and rubbed in anti hunter noses was only good news for antis as they will use it as a recruiting and fund raising tool. Hunters in the area didn't gain anything as far as wolves go from this hunt being advertised. All they got was a black eye.

The urbanites and wolf advocates need to understand the ungulate prey base controls wolves. Wolves do not control the prey. This is why wolves must be controlled and yes killed!

If wolves don't "control" the prey base (I agree with that and so does science) , then wolves certainly don't cause predator pits. Predator numbers are a side effect of prey numbers going up and down. In other words, predator numbers go up and down with the feed available.  Just like prey numbers do.

Despite all the anti wolf people's wishes, a predator pit is only possible in the most extreme and limited circumstances, and it would take outside influences to create the conditions to make it possible. Some wolf haters believe that just the existence of wolves creates a predator pit. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If that was a fact, Alaska would be a barren wasteland by now.

You need to read about the wolves and moose of Isle Royale.

http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/http%3A//www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/nao.shtml

http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/overview/overview/at_a_glance.html

[Gringo31]

Anyone know how many have been checked in?

[bearpaw]

Wolf lovers will use any spin they can to make their beloved wolves appear in a better light. My replies are noted in blue. 

A couple quotes in your article stand out Dale.

ZERO wolves were harvested during this predator derby! 21 Coyotes were taken.

 
Maybe what this really proves is coyotes are a much more pervasive and bigger problem than wolves will ever be. Coyotes are smaller and mostly solitary creatures so are much harder to find than a pack of wolves if wolves were in the area being hunted.  The fact that 21 coyotes were taken and zero wolves tells me that coyotes are way more of a problem than wolves in this area.  The results also tell me that having this hunt blasted all over and rubbed in anti hunter noses was only good news for antis as they will use it as a recruiting and fund raising tool. Hunters in the area didn't gain anything as far as wolves go from this hunt being advertised. All they got was a black eye.

I expect you would have the same take as other wolf lovers on the forum. To someone looking at this from another angle I think this derby further proves that wolves cannot be controlled with sport hunting. The numbers of coyotes/wolves taken further emphasizes the same ratios being harvested statewide of coyotes and wolves. This is more proof that wolf season could likely be open year around and that wolf derbies will have no real impact on wolf populations and could be allowed on a regular basis with little effect on wolves. You may not see it or care, but the two hundred hunters who spent the weekend in Salmon helped the local economy. In eastern Montana the small towns take turns hosting coyote derbies all winter, it's great for the local businesses.

The urbanites and wolf advocates need to understand the ungulate prey base controls wolves. Wolves do not control the prey. This is why wolves must be controlled and yes killed!

If wolves don't "control" the prey base (I agree with that and so does science) , then wolves certainly don't cause predator pits. Predator numbers are a side effect of prey numbers going up and down. In other words, predator numbers go up and down with the feed available.  Just like prey numbers do.

Despite all the anti wolf people's wishes, a predator pit is only possible in the most extreme and limited circumstances, and it would take outside influences to create the conditions to make it possible. Some wolf haters believe that just the existence of wolves creates a predator pit. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If that was a fact, Alaska would be a barren wasteland by now.

I know exactly what a predator pit is and it can occur whenever an ungulate population is reduced below carrying capacity by bad winters or other circumstances and there exists too many wolves or other predators which prevent the ungulate population to recover to carrying capacity levels. Too help you understand better, there is some great info here:

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1538&context=icwdm_usdanwrc
THE ROLE OF PREDATION IN WILDLIFE POPULATION DYNAMICS

Other terms commonly used when
describing predator-prey relationships are
"compensatory" and "additive" mortality.
Ballard et al. (2001) defined additive
mortality as occurring when the "additional
risk of death does not cause reductions in
other forms of mortality, but rather increases
overall mortality rate." On the other hand,
for compensatory mortality, the "additional
risk of death causes a reduction in other
forms of mortality so that overall mortality
either does not change or is less than it
would be if additive." Kunkel and Pletscher
(1999) suggested that predation on cewids
by several predatory species (mainly wolf
and cougar, Puma concolor) was additive in
northwestern Montana. Two terms also
worthy of definition are "obligate" and
"facultative" predator. An obligate predator
is one that specializes on one primary prey
species. Hence changes in the levels of the
primary prey will generally influence a
numerical change in the obligate predator.
In contrast, a facultative predator is a dietary
generalist that switches among prey species
and is thus buffered by changes in
abundance of any one prey species. A
facultative predator in a multi-prey system
can limit one prey species to low levels
because other prey maintain the predator
population.

Predator control can enhance prey
populations if prey is at low densities
relative to carrying capacity. In Alaska,
predator removal programs brought about
irruptions of moose, which allowed for
increased human harvest of moose
(Gasaway et al. 1983, 1992, Ballard et al.
1991). In British Columbia, following
reduction of wolf numbers, recruitment was
enhanced 2-5 times for 4 ungulate species
and all populations increased (Bergerud and
Elliott 1998). Similarly, deer populations in
south Texas increased following an
intensive coyote removal program (Beasom
1974).

[/color]

You need to read about the wolves and moose of Isle Royale.

http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/http%3A//www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/nao.shtml

http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/overview/overview/at_a_glance.html

I read about Isle Royale years ago. But that's hardly comparable to the northwest. The Isle Royal model essentially involves one prey specie and one predator with limited additional factors. The northwest involves multiple prey species and multiple predators and many additional influences on populations. Isle Royale is hardly a viable comparison.

I'll stand by my previous statements about predator pits. The evidence shows that wolves have caused predator pits in certain areas of Idaho. Hard winters, halted logging practices, and increased hunting seasons reduced herds and now introduced wolves combined with already present predators are preventing ungulate herds from recovering to carrying capacity. It's really not that hard to understand if you look at the whole picture.

I will also stand by my statements that NE WA is in a predator pit. This is due to back to back hard winters and high predator numbers (cougar, coyotes, bear, etc) mostly caused by WDFW predator management policies. The addition of wolves on the landscape will only lengthen and likely enhance this predator pit.

[BOWHUNTER45]

nice to know someone is on our side that actually makes a difference  as far as comparing coyotes to wolves that's a no brainer ....in do time the wolves will be as thick as coyotes if left uncontrolled .... look how fast they have already populated since the crap started 

[Curly]

I am more excited about the judge than the hunt itself.   I am glad there is still some light out there.

 

It's refreshing to see a judge make a good decision.