Bowhunter chased up tree by wolves in GMU 121!

[turkeyfeather]

Do you think deer hunting is what made deer afraid of people?

Absolutely!

So in areas where deer have never seen people or been hunted.

Is there such an area?

Sure there is. Especially  "No Hunting" areas.
Deer are still terrified of people in no hunting areas.

People were in and hunting in those areas long before they were desidnated as "no hunting". Comeone Jackelope, you can't possibly believe that an animal would be afraid of something for no reason. That's just plain illogical.

[jackelope]

Do you think deer hunting is what made deer afraid of people?

Absolutely!

So in areas where deer have never seen people or been hunted.

Is there such an area?

Sure there is. Especially  "No Hunting" areas.
Deer are still terrified of people in no hunting areas.

People were in and hunting in those areas long before they were desidnated as "no hunting". Comeone Jackelope, you can't possibly believe that an animal would be afraid of something for no reason. That's just plain illogical.

So fear is genetic?

[KFhunter]

So deer have went from eating people and are now genetically scared of people?

make sure I'm following this thread correctly

[sebek556]

Actually fear is a genetic and learned response. This has been proven many times. But fear between a apex predator and prey is not comparing apples to apples.  Take fight or flight syndrome. Prey know they have little chance to fight, so flight is their natural response to anything that startles them. Where predators know that they do stand a chance to fight and make their decision based on past knowledge. In wa wolves they have no past knowledge of man being a threat, therefore are more likely to choose fight if they feel corned. Few snarls and snaps, we back away and have now changed our status with them from predator to possible prey.

[turkeyfeather]

Do you think deer hunting is what made deer afraid of people?

Absolutely!

So in areas where deer have never seen people or been hunted.

Is there such an area?

Sure there is. Especially  "No Hunting" areas.
Deer are still terrified of people in no hunting areas.

People were in and hunting in those areas long before they were desidnated as "no hunting". Comeone Jackelope, you can't possibly believe that an animal would be afraid of something for no reason. That's just plain illogical.

So fear is genetic?

Nope it's life skills passed on from adults. But I'll bite. Why then is your explanation as to why deer are afraid of people?

[KFhunter]

Animals look at humans as predators, our forward eyes is what does it for the most part.   It's well documented.

It's why bears tend to bite our heads instead of in the middle of our backs like they would prey. 

[jackelope]

Animals look at humans as predators, our forward eyes is what does it for the most part.   It's well documented.

It's why bears tend to bite our heads instead of in the middle of our backs like they would prey.

I'm with you. My comments had nothing to do with why deer are afraid of people really. I was just questioning Pianoman's comments regarding his basis for fear of humans, or lack thereof I guess, being related to them being hunted and other negative interaction with humans.

Actually fear is a genetic and learned response. This has been proven many times. But fear between a apex predator and prey is not comparing apples to apples.  Take fight or flight syndrome. Prey know they have little chance to fight, so flight is their natural response to anything that startles them. Where predators know that they do stand a chance to fight and make their decision based on past knowledge. In wa wolves they have no past knowledge of man being a threat, therefore are more likely to choose fight if they feel corned. Few snarls and snaps, we back away and have now changed our status with them from predator to possible prey.

OK...well that makes sense. I'll go with that, but I think it happens over a long period of time, no??

[turkeyfeather]

So in areas where deer have never seen people or been hunted, they just run up and roll over looking for a belly rub?

The problem with your comment here is that you can never prove that deer wouldn't be afraid.

[jackelope]

So in areas where deer have never seen people or been hunted, they just run up and roll over looking for a belly rub?

The problem with your comment here is that you can never prove that deer wouldn't be afraid.

You're right. I've never had a deer come up looking for an actual belly rub.
But it could happen I suppose.
 

[idahohuntr]

One consideration missing in this long thread about humans/wolves....where do these WA wolves come from?  Certainly some of them are coming from Idaho...where they are hunted and trapped.  Particularly wolves on the E boundary...those wolves must cross back and forth and when they step into Idaho I have plenty of buddies that are going to "educate" them for you.  Maybe this is why wolves are increasing rapidly in NE Washington...were running them out of Idaho over to these liberal states where they are safe      Makes up for all those WA license plates I used to see when I hunted up the St. Joe 

[turkeyfeather]

So in areas where deer have never seen people or been hunted, they just run up and roll over looking for a belly rub?

The problem with your comment here is that you can never prove that deer wouldn't be afraid.

You're right. I've never had a deer come up looking for an actual belly rub.
But it could happen I suppose.
 

My point was that you could never prove what deer that hadn't had any interaction will do. Cause in order to find out you would have to interact with them. Also there is very little land in this country that hasn't been touched by man over the centuries. How many threads or comments  have their been just on this site that someone is complaining that they crawled into a deep dark hole in the middle of BFE and found trash.

[Northway]

Here's my one and only point in this page of the debate from me. I'm not intending to start a pissing match or an argument...but

It's a fact that the wolves in WA have no or very little fear of man. They haven't been hunted. They've seen man, smelled him and heard him, and there's been no negative stimuli.

I don't think the lack of hunting or other negative stimuli are the reasons that wolves are not afraid of people. I also think that only a small portion of the wolves in this state have been close enough, or have had enough interaction at all with man, to build a fear.
I don't think the hunter in this original story got "chased up a tree" either. I think he got scared because wolves were obviously in the area, and decided to climb a tree. Call it what you want, but I wouldn't personally call it getting chased up a tree.

I think a point that may or may not be relevant to this story is that there are hunters in Washington who have not traditionally hunted in wolf territory, unless they travel to the NRM, or maybe Canada. Maybe over time you'd see a straggler here and there, but not the more frequent encounters with full packs of wolves.

It doesn't seem far-fetched that there is the potential to overreact during your first real encounter. It's one of many things an LEO will have to consider when handling cases where a wolf gets shot during an encounter while they are listed.

I know that when I was out in brown bear country for the first few times, a possible encounter with one was first and foremost on my mind even though there were still all the other usual suspects running around out there. There was definitely an elevated risk that I could have overreacted had I run into one given the opportunity.

[snowpack]

Do you think deer hunting is what made deer afraid of people?

For sure.  In areas with little to no human hunting pressure they have little fear.  They walk around in daylight and often within a few yards of people.  Many aren't tame, unless a human works to train them.  Bears are similar.  The areas open to bear hunting, they will run off and hide from your sound or scent.  Go to a national park with bears and they waddle right past you at about 10 yards.  They'll keep an eye on you but it teaches the cubs that humans are okay. 

[AspenBud]

The areas open to bear hunting, they will run off and hide from your sound or scent. 

That's a nice fairy tale.

http://www.wqow.com/story/23834852/2013/10/30/hunter-attacked-by-bear-in-barron-county

Hunting bear with hounds in Wisconsin is still quite legal.

Predators are predators, if they see an opportunity or feel the need, they will still attack.

[snowpack]

THEY meaning in the general term.  Not all.  Thanks for the clarification.  Why don't you go spend some time in heavily pressured areas with a season vs those without a season (both having large populations of animals).