Letter to Raffle Tag REPOSTED!!!!!

[Basket Rack]

A couple more questions I have-
1. Why did you wait 3.5 months to post this?  If it was so unethical and horrible, why not post it right away when emotions were fresh.

That is the same question I had, why all this now?

[snowpack]

I'd guess in part due to raffle/gov tag threads that seem to have been brought up recently with photos.  They only showed up 'recently' even though some of the animals have been dead for those same 3.5 months.

[haugenna]

I'd guess in part due to raffle/gov tag threads that seem to have been brought up recently with photos.  They only showed up 'recently' even though some of the animals have been dead for those same 3.5 months.

I would like to hear Cory's response to the questions.   

[Kuduman]

Good questions  the time that elapsed alone begs the question that I think the op should answer to quantify his position.
My gut tells me that his post is a direct result of him not receiving bonus points for turning in the suspected wasting violator.
That said.... the root issue here is, if in fact wdfw investigated and found no fault with the tag holder who are we to weigh judgment upon him based on opinion or perception of another.
 List time I checked our judicial system convicts people on facts not conjecture. If wdfw has no problem with him I don't either.

[jackelope]

I'd guess in part due to raffle/gov tag threads that seem to have been brought up recently with photos.  They only showed up 'recently' even though some of the animals have been dead for those same 3.5 months.

Innacurate.
The auction tag bull got killed 12/22. The 2nd Klumper raffle tag bull got killed right before that. The 1st one was posted on here in September right after it got killed. The reason they've showed up recently is because they just got killed, except for the 1st Klumper bull that Cory had the experience with.

[Bigtine96]

Beat me to it fastdam.  If meat is left on the bone in 90 degree heat for a lot less than 24 hrs it is bone sour and bad, plain and simple!  To argue otherwise is dishonest.  Can you imagine the fly larvae on that meat    If it was boned meat hanging in game bags, it might have a change but not sitting on the ground with bones in.  Not picking sides in this battle just pointing out a blatantly obvious fact.  Also it keeps being said that this is about ethics but waste of game IS illegal so this is most definitely a legal argument.  Just out of curiosity Cory, but what shape was the carcass in?  Quartered, halved, whole, boned?  Was the remainder of the hide still on it?

  I agree with this 100%

How was the carcass when you first found it Cory?

[ipkus]

After 6 pages I can tell you what I've learned;

1.) The people that have mentioned the word slander in this thread don't know what it means, or how it applies in a court of law.  Good luck with your lawsuit!

2.) There are some serious fan boys of the raffle/auction tag buyers here.  You are the opposite of the jealous ones here who continually post their hate for the wealthy that buy these tags while claiming jealousy isn't the issue, as if most of them wouldn't do the same thing if they were financially able; it would be hilarious to watch you hover giddily around your 'buddy' in a restaurant in Dayton.

3.)  It's amazing how many people have missed the OP's point, even after it was reposted, whether it's different than the original or not.  His disappointment is in the lack of sportsmanship, and ethics.  That's it. 

Me?  I think there are too many 'money' tags, but I don't have a problem with the concept.  Having wealth, regardless of how it's been achieved, has always brought special access to all things across the world since the beginning of modern society.  However, wealth doesn't free anyone from their moral and ethical responsibilities in whatever activities they partake in, and sometimes circumstances dictate they actually have a greater responsibility than the common man because of situations they end up in only because of said wealth.

It is sad to watch what hunting is slowly degrading into.  Shooting trophies has always had it's place, but for an awful long time hunting was primarily about families, traditions, building relationships amongst people and with nature.  More and more it looks like a high school full of kids who think they already have the world all figured out, when they really don't know sh*t from shinola.

[CoryTDF]

there was no poaching  in this case therefore there was no opportunity for me to gain points Jeff. that has been stated since the original post. and if there were points to be given out I'm sure they would have went to the man who actually saw him shoot the bull and the guy who found it. your gut is wrong!

as for me waiting 3 months that is for a couple reasons. the recent attention about his second bull brought this back fresh to my mind. during a conversation with a coworker it came up again. this is nothing more than a case of having something nag at you and finally having to just tell people about it.

and why do people keep bringing up the legality of the issue I never once stated he broke the law. my letter was my opinion and my opinion stands!

[rosscrazyelk]

Just out of curiosity Cory, but what shape was the carcass in?  Quartered, halved, whole, boned?  Was the remainder of the hide still on it?

I am curious about this as well.  Seems to be a lot of legitimate questions avoided in this thread and I don't think it needs to resort to name calling.  I am sure everyone on the thread are stand up people but it doesn't need to get ugly with name calling.  We can have a grown up discussion.

I think you did the right thing by calling the gamewarden and telling them of a potential poaching case.  If that were me, I would be following up with the gamewarden if I turned into someone to get 10 points for a poacher.  What was your follow up and what information did you get from them.
 
A couple more questions I have-
1. Why did you wait 3.5 months to post this?  If it was so unethical and horrible, why not post it right away when emotions were fresh.
2. Are you at all frustrated a rifle hunter was hunting in a archery unit during archery season?
3. When did you find out it was a governor's tag or raffle tag holder and who did you hear it from?   It doesn't sound like he was advertising he was the raffle tag holder to anyone.
4. The animal was shot just before dark, how far in was it and when is your best guess the meat was packed out. 
5.  Response to BLRMan's question.

One more silly questions I had earlier that was avoided-
If you guide for TDF, do you clean the ducks, have a hired hand clean the ducks or do you make the client clean the ducks?

Lastly, NOBODY is defending Mossback in here.  Lets not confuse the hunter with the guide.

To answer your first question from past experience no one ever answers legitimate questions on this site. Lol

[LittleJohn]

I don't usually call the game dept about my "opinion".

[300UltraMagShooter]

so when all is said and one, this guy got an elk and took the meat which is probably in the freezer now...
and for this, he gets slammed on the internet because he didn't do it as someone else might do it?

to the man that shot the elk, congrats sir, well done. 

[Green broke]

To answer your question-

Ethical- Yes
Lazier than me- Yes
If it happened to me would I be frustrated- Yes
Would you find me complaining about it on an internet forum 3 1/2 months later- NO

He may not have been the one who caped it or even got a drop of blood on his hands.  He took the animal in fair chase in accordance to Washington hunting laws.

I don't really believe that Cory is "complaining" about anything.  I think he is spot on to put out there what he saw and let the people know when such events take place. Cory, or any tag holder, has every right to hunt a unit when he or she draws a tag.  These high dollar guys that throw there money around are fine in doing so, but not when others are deterred from setting their own goals with a tag they rightfully earned.  I don't care who you are, how much you paid for a tag, or how many guys you rented to help, every legal hunter with a tag for that unit is entitled to hunt with no questions.  You obviously don't get what Cory was getting at in the beginning of this post.  Its was already said by him and many others that the tag holder did nothing illegal (that he knew of).  The whole point to this post is of ethics and proper care of game.  I don't know why your opinion is based on legality because that is not the issue and never has been.  If you are one of those that believes that the law sets whether something is ethical or not that's fine, but some of us dont see the law as the golden rule of ethics and believe that all hunters have an obligation to the game we hunt.

Fair enough, but Cory is only ASSUMING meat was lost, he does not know how it ended up, and neither does anyone else on here, correct?

 If Cory has some evidence, WDFW investigation report etc. to back up his assumption then hell yes his comments would be justified, but he doesn't, and at this point all it is is slander, and likely why he removed/watered down his original post, to avoid litigation.

Phool you are implying litigation? If this were the a strong argument for litigation Phil Lancaster(if that's the correct name) would be a rich man just from settlements from this site. His name has been drug through the mud several times on here and NOBODY has proved (in our hw court  ) him to be acting illegally. There are several other specific tribal guys that have been targeted onhere. It amazes me you would bring the implied threat of litigation. Just saying... It's not the players sometimes it's the game.

[Biggerhammer]

After 6 pages I can tell you what I've learned;

1.) The people that have mentioned the word slander in this thread don't know what it means, or how it applies in a court of law.  Good luck with your lawsuit!

2.) There are some serious fan boys of the raffle/auction tag buyers here.  You are the opposite of the jealous ones here who continually post their hate for the wealthy that buy these tags while claiming jealousy isn't the issue, as if most of them wouldn't do the same thing if they were financially able; it would be hilarious to watch you hover giddily around your 'buddy' in a restaurant in Dayton.

3.)  It's amazing how many people have missed the OP's point, even after it was reposted, whether it's different than the original or not.  His disappointment is in the lack of sportsmanship, and ethics.  That's it. 

Me?  I think there are too many 'money' tags, but I don't have a problem with the concept.  Having wealth, regardless of how it's been achieved, has always brought special access to all things across the world since the beginning of modern society.  However, wealth doesn't free anyone from their moral and ethical responsibilities in whatever activities they partake in, and sometimes circumstances dictate they actually have a greater responsibility than the common man because of situations they end up in only because of said wealth.

It is sad to watch what hunting is slowly degrading into.  Shooting trophies has always had it's place, but for an awful long time hunting was primarily about families, traditions, building relationships amongst people and with nature.  More and more it looks like a high school full of kids who think they already have the world all figured out, when they really don't know sh*t from shinola.

SPOT ON! This is by far the most accurate post so far in this thread.

[haugenna]

After 6 pages I can tell you what I've learned;

1.) The people that have mentioned the word slander in this thread don't know what it means, or how it applies in a court of law.  Good luck with your lawsuit!

2.) There are some serious fan boys of the raffle/auction tag buyers here.  You are the opposite of the jealous ones here who continually post their hate for the wealthy that buy these tags while claiming jealousy isn't the issue, as if most of them wouldn't do the same thing if they were financially able; it would be hilarious to watch you hover giddily around your 'buddy' in a restaurant in Dayton.

3.)  It's amazing how many people have missed the OP's point, even after it was reposted, whether it's different than the original or not.  His disappointment is in the lack of sportsmanship, and ethics.  That's it. 

Me?  I think there are too many 'money' tags, but I don't have a problem with the concept.  Having wealth, regardless of how it's been achieved, has always brought special access to all things across the world since the beginning of modern society.  However, wealth doesn't free anyone from their moral and ethical responsibilities in whatever activities they partake in, and sometimes circumstances dictate they actually have a greater responsibility than the common man because of situations they end up in only because of said wealth.

It is sad to watch what hunting is slowly degrading into.  Shooting trophies has always had it's place, but for an awful long time hunting was primarily about families, traditions, building relationships amongst people and with nature.  More and more it looks like a high school full of kids who think they already have the world all figured out, when they really don't know sh*t from shinola.

SPOT ON! This is by far the most accurate post so far in this thread.

Don't know about most accurate but I would agree it is more accurate than the OP.  Lots of unanswered questions for any of us to draw a bunch of conclusions.  Still waiting on answers to the questions I posted.   

Also,  I wouldn't know if I sat next to the raffle tag holder on a plane. 

[CoryTDF]

Just out of curiosity Cory, but what shape was the carcass in?  Quartered, halved, whole, boned?  Was the remainder of the hide still on it?

I am curious about this as well.  Seems to be a lot of legitimate questions avoided in this thread and I don't think it needs to resort to name calling.  I am sure everyone on the thread are stand up people but it doesn't need to get ugly with name calling.  We can have a grown up discussion.

I think you did the right thing by calling the gamewarden and telling them of a potential poaching case.  If that were me, I would be following up with the gamewarden if I turned into someone to get 10 points for a poacher.  What was your follow up and what information did you get from them.
 
A couple more questions I have-
1. Why did you wait 3.5 months to post this?  If it was so unethical and horrible, why not post it right away when emotions were fresh.
2. Are you at all frustrated a rifle hunter was hunting in a archery unit during archery season?
3. When did you find out it was a governor's tag or raffle tag holder and who did you hear it from?   It doesn't sound like he was advertising he was the raffle tag holder to anyone.
4. The animal was shot just before dark, how far in was it and when is your best guess the meat was packed out. 
5.  Response to BLRMan's question.

One more silly questions I had earlier that was avoided-
If you guide for TDF, do you clean the ducks, have a hired hand clean the ducks or do you make the client clean the ducks?

Lastly, NOBODY is defending Mossback in here.  Lets not confuse the hunter with the guide.

to #1 All the new interest in this guys 2nd bull. I was telling this story to a coworker and it had been nagging at me for 3 months so i decided to post.

#2 No not at all he drew the tag I would love to have that tag. Little frustrated he lied to me about what he was doing after messing up my setup. The Natives had just got done with their season in the same area and they use rifles as well. I was just happy to have a bull tag in my pocket.

#3 found out 4 days after. Spoke with WDFW the day of and then word got around what had happened. I had a Reasonable suspicion that something was off so I did the responsible thing and called to tell them what I knew. Never said it was poached or not just told them what I had seen and heard and gave a description of the truck and two guys.

#4 it was not more than 2 miles and that is probably making much longer than it really was. The meat was by service roads on the top of a mountain. By most standards it was an easy pack for whoever did go in and get the meat. Whenever that was.

#5 I left that afternoon and went to make my call and nobody had been up there yet. I would say it is safe to say it was there for nearly 20 hours. The meat was still on the bone not in bags but it had been skinned as they had to do that to take the cape. I maintain that I believe the meat would have been spoiled by the time it got off the hill.

TDF is NOT a guide service and we are NOT guides. I clean my own birds and anybody that hunts with me cleans their own birds. You kill it you deal with it. Thats what my dad taught me and that is how I hunt.

This is my final post on this matter I am not going to talk in circles. I have said what I wanted to say. I know that the animal was not poached and never said it was. I had a complaint about ethics and the way this person and his guide conducted themselves. This does not now nor did it ever have anything to do with him being wealthy. If I was wealthy I would buy every tag I could as well. I am good friends with some people of means who are ethical hunters. I never had intentions of getting points as I knew there were plenty of other people who would be ahead of me had it went that way. As far as that goes though a applaud any person who reports suspicious activity or poaching regardless of weather they are looking for points or not. You have a moral obligation to report suspicious activity IMHO. To those who think I was wrong for posting this thank you for voicing your concerns. It is well within your right to say so but please respect that it is also my right to voice my own. This situation happened to me none of you and acting within my rights I voiced my opinion on the situation. Happy hunting to all   and please remember that meat is the true trophy take care of it as well if not better than you do the horns.