SB 6130 & HB 2394 Would Grant More LE Authority to Liquor Officers MAJOR CHANGE

[bigtex]

Here is the reasoning for such legislation. LCB Officers have authority statewide, unlike DNR and Parks LE which only have authority on their lands. Difference is DNR and Parks can enforce all laws on their lands, LCB can only do alcohol, tobacco as it pertains to minors and taxing, and drugs.

So if an individual carried a firearm into a bar which is a clear violation of WA law the LCB Officer would have no authority to cite/arrest the individual. Yet they could arrest the bartender or bouncer for allowing the gun in the bar, and cite the business for allowing a gun in the bar. Why is this? Because such violation is not found in the alcohol RCW but rather the firearms RCW, outside of LCB authority.

If a fight occurred in a bar the LCB Officer would have no authority to break up the fight or arrest the assaulter. Yet they could arrest the bartender or bouncer for allowing the fight to happen, and cite the business for allowing the fight. Again, assault is not within the alcohol RCW.

If an individual is smoking a cigarette in a bar, they are outside LCB jurisdiction because LCB Officers only have authority over tobacco laws as they pertain to minors and taxation, not public smoking laws.

Even in a bar or nightclub the LCB only has authority over alcohol, some tobacco and drug laws. So it's not like a bar or nightclub is the equivalent to a State Park for a LE Ranger, where they can enforce all laws.

And quite honestly everybody at one time had those thoughts were they are driving down the road and see a DUI, reckless driver, assault or whatever crime in progress and just wished they were a police officer. Well guess what, even though LCB Officers have arrest authority, carry firearms, and are dispatched by the WSP, they are just like all other citizens and cant do a damn thing in these situations under their current authority.

[bigtex]

HE77 just make everyone a full authority Law enforcement officer unless they have been convicted of a felony.

I know you are talking about general citizens, but actually most states no longer have limited and full authority law enforcement officers. In most states now you are a law enforcement officer and enforce all laws. You may work for State Parks, or Liquor Enforcement and that's your mission, but you don't ignore the crime happening in front of you. In WA, DNR, Parks, and LCB Officers have to ignore those crimes happening right in front of them even though they are state officers carrying firearms and look like every other LEO.

[KFhunter]

What do you suggest to keep someone with no experience enforcing a law they know nothing about if not by agency?

I know of no testing or grading, or other crediting system that enables an officer to enforce a law they have no clue about, worse if the LCB gets this authority then we could see stat driven enforcement to "validate" their reasoning for this SB 6130 and HB 2394.

This would force officers with little to no experience enforcing a law in a field they know nothing about.  DUI might not be a good example,  how about chasing down a kid on an ATV?

The large majority of LCB Officers are previous full authority officers who simply moved to the LCB, they've been through the full academy. They've been trained to handle everything just like a county deputy or PD officer. Those that didn't attend the full academy will go to a specialized bridge/equivalency course to train them on the new laws they will be enforcing, which is exactly what happened when the Departments of Fisheries and Wildlife received more authority in the 1980s. Very few LCB Officers have spent their entire LE career with the LCB, most started with WSP, a PD, or SO.

It's not fair to our LCB officers, but this story was in my mind as a wrote those two posts above.

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/06/20103-college-girls-suspected-of-buying-alcohol-arrested-at-gun-point-by-police-after-actually-buying-bottled-water/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/29/college-student-arrested-thrown-in-jail-after-buying-bottled-water/

It should have been just a simple trip to the grocery store to buy bottled water, cookie dough and ice cream for a sorority event.

Instead, six plainclothes officers swarmed University of Virginia student Elizabeth Daly, who was ultimately arrested and spent the night and next afternoon in jail, the Charlottesville Daily Progress reported.

College Student Arrested & Thrown in Jail After Buying Bottled Water
Getty Images

What happened? The officers — men and a woman — were state Alcoholic Beverage Control agents who suspected the 20-year-old walking to her car that night had just bought a pack of beer. One agent jumped on the hood of her SUV and Daly said one drew a gun. Panicking and not knowing who they were, she tried to get away.

“They were showing unidentifiable badges after they approached us, but we became frightened, as they were not in anything close to a uniform,” Daly said in a written account of the April 11 incident.

“I couldn’t put my windows down unless I started my car, and when I started my car they began yelling to not move the car, not to start the car. They began trying to break the windows. My roommates and I were…terrified,” she stated.

She dialed 911 as she pulled out of the parking lot and stopped for an agent’s car with lights and sirens, the Daily Progress reported. Once she realized who the agents were, she apologized profusely.

Nevertheless, Daly was charged with two felony counts of assaulting a law enforcement officer after she grazed two agents with her SUV trying to flee, and one felony count of eluding police.

She spent the night and afternoon in jail, and was facing prison time and thousands of dollars in fines before the charges were dropped Thursday.

Charlottesville Commonwealth’s Attorney Dave Chapman told the Daily Progress he’d never seen a case like this in 34 years of experience.

“It wouldn’t be the right thing to do to prosecute this,” he said.

The Alcoholic Beverage Control said Friday it’s reviewing the incident. A spokeswoman said a female agent saw “what appeared to be an underage person in possession of what appeared to be a case of beer.”

“The agent identified herself as a police officer and was displaying her badge,” agency spokeswoman Kathleen Shaw said in a statement. “The agents were acting upon reasonable suspicion.”

[KFhunter]

I don't know anything about LCB officers other than their job description, I don't know any personally.

So tell me why someone from WSP or other agency would want to become an LCB officer? 
It smacks to me of a place for ROJ/ROAD and washouts, but is it really a desirable job attracting our best and brightest?

[bigtex]

What do you suggest to keep someone with no experience enforcing a law they know nothing about if not by agency?

I know of no testing or grading, or other crediting system that enables an officer to enforce a law they have no clue about, worse if the LCB gets this authority then we could see stat driven enforcement to "validate" their reasoning for this SB 6130 and HB 2394.

This would force officers with little to no experience enforcing a law in a field they know nothing about.  DUI might not be a good example,  how about chasing down a kid on an ATV?

The large majority of LCB Officers are previous full authority officers who simply moved to the LCB, they've been through the full academy. They've been trained to handle everything just like a county deputy or PD officer. Those that didn't attend the full academy will go to a specialized bridge/equivalency course to train them on the new laws they will be enforcing, which is exactly what happened when the Departments of Fisheries and Wildlife received more authority in the 1980s. Very few LCB Officers have spent their entire LE career with the LCB, most started with WSP, a PD, or SO.

It's not fair to our LCB officers, but this story was in my mind as a wrote those two posts above.

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/06/20103-college-girls-suspected-of-buying-alcohol-arrested-at-gun-point-by-police-after-actually-buying-bottled-water/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/29/college-student-arrested-thrown-in-jail-after-buying-bottled-water/

Gotcha. Can't view an agency simply because of a bad incident by the same type of agency in another state, and I think you agree.

LCB has come along ways, in the past 25 years or so. They've gone from basically a group of people who dressed up in suits looking like federal special agents who liked to drink, to actual LEOs to the point now where they actually have a formal uniform just like every other agency. Their "new" Deputy Chief just retired as an Asst. Chief from WSP. A lot of their supervisors are former WSP. So they aren't a bunch of rejects, or idiots.

[JLS]

What do you suggest to keep someone with no experience enforcing a law they know nothing about if not by agency?

I know of no testing or grading, or other crediting system that enables an officer to enforce a law they have no clue about, worse if the LCB gets this authority then we could see stat driven enforcement to "validate" their reasoning for this SB 6130 and HB 2394.

This would force officers with little to no experience enforcing a law in a field they know nothing about.  DUI might not be a good example,  how about chasing down a kid on an ATV?

The large majority of LCB Officers are previous full authority officers who simply moved to the LCB, they've been through the full academy. They've been trained to handle everything just like a county deputy or PD officer. Those that didn't attend the full academy will go to a specialized bridge/equivalency course to train them on the new laws they will be enforcing, which is exactly what happened when the Departments of Fisheries and Wildlife received more authority in the 1980s. Very few LCB Officers have spent their entire LE career with the LCB, most started with WSP, a PD, or SO.

It's not fair to our LCB officers, but this story was in my mind as a wrote those two posts above.

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/06/20103-college-girls-suspected-of-buying-alcohol-arrested-at-gun-point-by-police-after-actually-buying-bottled-water/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/29/college-student-arrested-thrown-in-jail-after-buying-bottled-water/

It should have been just a simple trip to the grocery store to buy bottled water, cookie dough and ice cream for a sorority event.

Instead, six plainclothes officers swarmed University of Virginia student Elizabeth Daly, who was ultimately arrested and spent the night and next afternoon in jail, the Charlottesville Daily Progress reported.

College Student Arrested & Thrown in Jail After Buying Bottled Water
Getty Images

What happened? The officers — men and a woman — were state Alcoholic Beverage Control agents who suspected the 20-year-old walking to her car that night had just bought a pack of beer. One agent jumped on the hood of her SUV and Daly said one drew a gun. Panicking and not knowing who they were, she tried to get away.

“They were showing unidentifiable badges after they approached us, but we became frightened, as they were not in anything close to a uniform,” Daly said in a written account of the April 11 incident.

“I couldn’t put my windows down unless I started my car, and when I started my car they began yelling to not move the car, not to start the car. They began trying to break the windows. My roommates and I were…terrified,” she stated.

She dialed 911 as she pulled out of the parking lot and stopped for an agent’s car with lights and sirens, the Daily Progress reported. Once she realized who the agents were, she apologized profusely.

Nevertheless, Daly was charged with two felony counts of assaulting a law enforcement officer after she grazed two agents with her SUV trying to flee, and one felony count of eluding police.

She spent the night and afternoon in jail, and was facing prison time and thousands of dollars in fines before the charges were dropped Thursday.

Charlottesville Commonwealth’s Attorney Dave Chapman told the Daily Progress he’d never seen a case like this in 34 years of experience.

“It wouldn’t be the right thing to do to prosecute this,” he said.

The Alcoholic Beverage Control said Friday it’s reviewing the incident. A spokeswoman said a female agent saw “what appeared to be an underage person in possession of what appeared to be a case of beer.”

“The agent identified herself as a police officer and was displaying her badge,” agency spokeswoman Kathleen Shaw said in a statement. “The agents were acting upon reasonable suspicion.”

The story you cited deals with having people of very poor judgement in a uniform, regardless of which agency they work for.  I could probably find you hundreds of stories of incompetence from municipal police departments and county sheriff's offices too.  No profession, company, or agency is immune from idiots.

[KFhunter]

That helps a bunch BT

with that in mind I don't have so much of a concern now, and it makes since.

[bigtex]

I don't know anything about LCB officers other than their job description, I don't know any personally.

So tell me why someone from WSP or other agency would want to become an LCB officer? 
It smacks to me of a place for ROJ/ROAD and washouts, but is it really a desirable job attracting our best and brightest?

That's a good question and not many people know about them. From the few I've known, I would have no problem putting them in a deputy or city officer uniform. I know a few and from what I've gathered is there are two types.

1- Is the recent retiree from a full authority agency who still wants to be in LE but doesn't need to be running and gunning to domestics and so forth all night long. I heard they've hired something like 10 recently retired WSP Troopers within the past year or so.

2- The agency is basically a set your own work schedule agency. So for someone who doesn't need to be out running and gunning and maybe wants more of a personal life this agency fits you. It's not like most PD's and SO's where you rotate shifts every couple months. You make your own schedule, you can work from home, you have a lot of freedom.

[Crunchy]

If liquor control board officers go through the same acedemy as all other LEOs what makes their ability to enforce laws any different than another of county or city officer or deputy?  Their commision is with the state, not state liquor control board. 

[bigtex]

If liquor control board officers go through the same acedemy as all other LEOs what makes their ability to enforce laws any different than another of county or city officer or deputy?  Their commision is with the state, not state liquor control board.

It's under state law that LCB Officers can only enforce alcohol, some tobacco, and some drug laws. Just like how state law limits DNR LE to just DNR lands. And under state law the agency is defined as "limited authority"

[KFhunter]

It's not fair to our LCB officers, but this story was in my mind as a wrote those two posts above.

The story you cited deals with having people of very poor judgement in a uniform, regardless of which agency they work for.  I could probably find you hundreds of stories of incompetence from municipal police departments and county sheriff's offices too.  No profession, company, or agency is immune from idiots.

exactly right, so I put the little disclaimer on there. Someone was going to link that story eventually so I went ahead and did it.

[blackdog]

I would be more comfortable giving the County sheriffs department the LCB and DNR law enforcement contracts and the problem is solved.

[bigtex]

I would be more comfortable giving the County sheriffs department the LCB and DNR law enforcement contracts and the problem is solved.

I can only see that being increased costs to the state. King County alone has about 20 LCB Officers making about 50k a year in terms of salary. If the LCB told King County SO they want to contract and have 20 King County Deputies do LCB work (basically same staffing level), LCB would have to pay a lot more considering a King County Deputy at top step makes about 80k per year. Go to each county and you will see that many (not all) pay deputies more then they pay LCB Officers. Then you bring in training, how long does it take to teach a deputy about the different types of liquor and server licenses? If a deputy only lasts a year or two working liquor enforcement how often will the LCB have to provide training? There is a reason why when a deputy or city officer gets some type of liquor violation outside of the regular stuff (selling to minors, etc) they call LCB. And now you need to remember is that LCB is responsible for marijuana growing and sales enforcement.

There is a reason why the majority of states have a state liquor enforcement agency, it's because it works. If it worked better with counties then you would see that. It's just like when people say fish and wildlife enforcement should be under WSP, only two states operate that way. Why should WA follow the lead of 2 states when 48 others aren't doing it?

[KFhunter]

remember this is all on the front burner because of the recent changes to the MJ laws.

 A lot of folks on here were all for legalizing MJ, but with that comes state controls and LE

[bigtex]

remember this is all on the front burner because of the recent changes to the MJ laws.

 A lot of folks on here were all for legalizing MJ, but with that comes state controls and LE

As well as putting liquor in grocery stores. The initiative and voters said they wanted to take the state out of the liquor selling business and have a larger role in public safety...well here you go