Senate Bill 6278 Mistakenly Kill Big Game

[bigtex]

First of all it scares the heck out of me every year when I have cow elk hunters shooting at a herd of elk that contains spikes. I am afraid that one day a hunter will accidentally hit the wrong animal.

You're kidding me. I shot a bull during an antlerless hunt, and I get off scott free?

How would this happen if you are honest under this bill?

Currently if a hunter accidentally shoots a bull there are 3 options of thought:
 - Leave the bull and say nothing, hope you don't get caught
 - Take the bull and say nothing, hope you don't get caught
 - Turn yourself in and receive your punishment

With the bill there is a 4th option:
 - Turn yourself in, pay a minimal fine, lose your tag for the season, save the meat from wastage, and try not to do that ever again.

If there is a mandatory fine and loss of tag, then I would be more inclined to support it. What is the "minimal" fine?

Under this bill there is no charges and there is no fine. The only money involved is restitution to WDFW which according to the bill is the equivalent of the cost of the tag.

[Bob33]

I think any hunter that hunts long enough will encounter a situation like that.

There needs to a strong enough penalty to ensure that hunters do everything within their power to properly identify what they are shooting at, before pulling the trigger, while not making the penalty so onerous that a hunter will leave the game to rot.

[bigtex]

If for some reason there is a "must" for this bill the restitution needs to be changed.

Under this bill if you accidentally shot a doe in a buck unit you would pay a $39 restitution fee to WDFW which is the fee for a deer tag.

If someone illegally shoots a deer they face gross misdemeanor charges plus a $2,000 civil fine (restitution) to WDFW.

If we must have this bill, make the restitution equal to what the civil fine is, in this case $2,000.

[Kazekurt]

I'm with bear paw on this one.  I hunt almost entirely public land for mule deer in E. Washington and have come across at least a half dozen two points left to rot.  This makes me sick as I just couldn't understand why people would walk away.  Then, I mentioned it to a buddy and he told me he knew a guy that shot a  2pt with a 3rd point that wasn't quite an inch long that felt horrible and turned himself in and got a very stiff punishment.  The guy is unlikely to ever "do the right thing" again and neither is anyone who heard his story as a result of how it was handled.  It appeared to me that he should have just packed it out and took his chances as he got basically the same punishment.  I would never walk away from an animal, my ethics won't allow that, but I'd think long and hard about packing one out after hearing  his story.    I'm adamantly against poaching and a firm believer in knowing  your target  but accidents happen and sometimes they involve ethical hunters.

[Jingles]

What I read is something that I do not support because at 65 years of age I feel there is NO MISTAKEN identity of sex when hunting any antlered game species. If a person can't tell the difference they have no dmaned business being in the woods and if they hit a female instead of the male they thought they were shooting they definitely did not have a clear sight picture and awareness of what was in the line of fire.
Sorry NO EXCUSES for mistakenly killing the wrong animal
From the time I first started hunting at age 10 I have always been told if in doubt don't shoot

[Bob33]

I hunt almost entirely public land for mule deer in E. Washington and have come across at least a half dozen two points left to rot.

Why are so many hunters unable to properly identify what they are shooting at?

What does this bill do to address that, which is the root problem?

So what if I can't tell for sure how many points the deer has? I'll go ahead and take a shot just in case it has three; it's only a $39 slap on the wrist if I'm wrong.

I think this will INCREASE the number of illegally killed animals.

[bigtex]

There has been some type of mistaken/accidental big game killing bill almost every year for about 10 years now. The real story is about 10 years ago a state legislator shot a deer/elk that didn't meet the regs for that unit. He called WDFW, WDFW Officer showed up and charged him with the gross misdemeanor, just like everybody else would've received.

So what bill do you think that legislator introduced the next legislative session? You got it, one similar to this.

[Kazekurt]

Jingles, I think most of the discussion in this thread is regarding mistakinly killing an illegal buck in a pt restricted area.  I agree 100% that people should know their target but not all hunters are careful so the issue being discussed is whether it's better to have the hunter salvage the animal, loose his tag, and pay a small fine, or keep the system how it is and many hunters will just walk away, waste the animal, possibly harvest another animal, and pay nothing.  I think Alaska has a system in place where hunters can self report and receive some lienancy and that many hunters do take that option.  The important thing is to make the punishment enough to make hunters be careful but not so stiff that they just walk away.

[bearpaw]

If for some reason there is a "must" for this bill the restitution needs to be changed.

Under this bill if you accidentally shot a doe in a buck unit you would pay a $39 restitution fee to WDFW which is the fee for a deer tag.

If someone illegally shoots a deer they face gross misdemeanor charges plus a $2,000 civil fine (restitution) to WDFW.

If we must have this bill, make the restitution equal to what the civil fine is, in this case $2,000.

Do you really think that fining a an honest hunter $2000 for turning himself in makes more hunters have a positive view of WDFW and LE in general?

I think it works exactly the opposite, the honest person who turns himself in and gets a lesser fine is more likely to view themselves as a partner in wildlife management.

[bigtex]

If for some reason there is a "must" for this bill the restitution needs to be changed.

Under this bill if you accidentally shot a doe in a buck unit you would pay a $39 restitution fee to WDFW which is the fee for a deer tag.

If someone illegally shoots a deer they face gross misdemeanor charges plus a $2,000 civil fine (restitution) to WDFW.

If we must have this bill, make the restitution equal to what the civil fine is, in this case $2,000.

Do you really think that fining a an honest hunter $2000 for turning himself in makes more hunters have a positive view of WDFW and LE in general?

I think it works exactly the opposite, the honest person who turns himself in and gets a lesser fine is more likely to view themselves as a partner in wildlife management.

Under current law the person in this situation faces gross misdemeanor charges (up to a $5,000 criminal fine and 364 days in jail), plus the $2,000 civil fine for a conviction, and will lose their hunting license for 2 years.

So all of that compared to a $2,000 fine is fair. You don't have any criminal record, you can still hunt the next year, and you learned a lesson to better judge what you shot. Under this bill a deer is worth $39.

[bearpaw]

Because I've spent nearly my entire life hunting with thousands of different hunters, I have a story for almost any circumstance. Not bragging, just stating a fact.

Doe Accidentally Shot
This was in Montana. I had 4 brothers antelope hunting, all over 30, all lifelong hunters. They said had all sighted their guns before driving to Montana to meet me for the hunt. First day we killed 3 nice bucks and the fourth brother missed a nice buck. Next day he missed two more nice bucks. I asked if we could shoot his gun and he said we didn't need to because he had shot it and was right on.

Next day I spotted another herd with a nice buck, we made a sweet stalk and come up behind a rock outcropping at about 240 yards. He had a rock solid rest and pulled the trigger. The doe right behind the buck dropped. 

Fortunately it was an either sex season and we didn't break the law, but this illustrates what can happen and completely unintentional. To this day his brothers have not forgiven him as they claim we should have shot the rifle after missing a couple animals. But simple mistakes like this happen every year.

I would rather see a guy be honest and receive a small fine than alienate him with a huge unnecessary penalty. 

[bigtex]

I would rather see a guy be honest and receive a small fine than alienate him with a huge unnecessary penalty. 

So in your opinion is $39 restitution for a deer, enough? Because this is what the bill states..

[chukar58]

Hunter safety dictates you are to be 100% sure of your target and what is beyond it,  or you do not shoot.   This bill would alow for a hunter who make an honest mistake to pay a small fine and move on.   However I believe that it would also make it easier for poachers to shoot an ileagal animal and when they get caught say " I am going to turn my self in now".   Yes if a hunter shoots the wrong animal they need to be responsible and turn them selves in.

[trophyhunt]

I like the bill, but think it should be more inclusive to read as follows:

The bill would make it a defense that the hunter killed a big game animal due to mistaken sex or mistaken number of antler points. The law would not apply to bear, elk, threatened, and endangered wildlife.

(5)(a) It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection
(1)(b) of this section if the hunter kills big game due to a mistaken belief about the sex of the animal or mistaken number of antler pointsand:
(i) The killing occurred during an open season for the species;
(ii) The hunter had all licenses, tags, or permits necessary to lawfully hunt the species; and
(iii) The hunter follows the procedural requirements defined in (b) of this subsection. (b) Any hunter claiming the affirmative defense provided by this subsection (5) must:
(i) Immediately remove all of the entrails of any edible big game and tag the animal in the manner prescribed by the department;
(ii) Within twenty-four hours after the killing, report the kill to the department by telephone or electronic communication;
(iii) Within twenty-four hours after the killing, deliver the entire carcass, less entrails, to any fish and wildlife officer within the county the kill occurred for disposition and provide a written, sworn statement to the officer explaining when, where, and how the mistake occurred; and
(iv) Within ten days of the killing, provide the department full payment of restitution. Restitution is the same as the fee for the license proscribed for the species killed pursuant to RCW 77.32.450.
(c) The affirmative defense provided by this subsection (5) does not apply to the killing of a bear, elk, or threatened or endangered species as designated by the commission.

It seems to me that if a hunter makes a mistake they will be more inclined to do the right thing and that less wildlife will be wasted. I think this is the way laws should be designed, where the intentional law breaker still is reprimanded to the full extent of the law, but a person making a mistake is encouraged to do the right thing and turn themselves in. 

The mistaken violator still pays a fine and must give up their tag for the season when they tag the mistaken animal, then they must go through the process of reporting and delivering the animal, nobody is going to purposely do this, a person who does this will avoid making the mistake again.

i was thinking the same thing. I agre that this bill is better for the honest hunters that make mistakes and want to be truthful without being nailed by big fines.  I also agree with you about including the antler point mistake. The dishonest guys won't be effected at this bill just the honest ones, in my opinion.

[Kazekurt]

I hunt almost entirely public land for mule deer in E. Washington and have come across at least a half dozen two points left to rot.

Why are so many hunters unable to properly identify what they are shooting at?

What does this bill do to address that, which is the root problem?

So what if I can't tell for sure how many points the deer has? I'll go ahead and take a shot just in case it has three; it's only a $39 slap on the wrist if I'm wrong.

I think this will INCREASE the number of illegally killed animals.

I agree that they SHOULD know what they are shooting at but lots of hunters will roll the dice if one jumps off and starts running off; especially considering their are some giant 2 Pts out there.  I'm not excusing it or condoning it; I'm just saying it happens because I've seen the corpses.  I'm not sure the law would increase it as the people "rolling the dice" don't fear the consequences now; they just walk away and keep hunting.  This law won't stop the most unethical hunters as they'll always poach and take questionable shots but it might afford the usually ethical  ones a way to do the right thing.  Again, I'm not advocating a slap on the wrist, I just think the current system is causing lots of animals to be wasted.