Changes you would like to see in the big game drawings

[blackveltbowhunter]

   I don't have the years of experience in the draws many of you do. Went in with 12 points this Year. Personally.... I really think we have the fairest and most realistic point system available. The category split a few years back is what  shot down our draw odds. I understand it's a revenue generator for the state, but why not simply combine Fees and eliminate these multiple categories? if it's working the way we are speculating most folks are applying for all applicable categories. Some of these are "wasted" tags I am sure as I personally know of at least a dozen drawn cow tags that never even got hunted on. But regardless I know I would rather pay a one flat fee of say 25 bucks rather than split those fees over three categories (cow, bull, quality).

I would rather see separate categories eliminated, but as you suggest the DFW seems to like the added revenue.

I don't see the problem in the potential to draw more than 1 permit per species. It is part of the game. Apply strategically.I look at it more as potential wasted points rather than wasted permits. People that draw more than 1 still get to hunt where they want. If a guy has lots of points in multiple categories it is probably smart to modify the categories you are putting in for to avoid multiple selections. For example if I have an archery elk tag I would put in for quality, take the points option in the bull category, and probably not put in for cow at all.

I understand  feeling the need of putting in for all categories, with the draw odds on the quality hunts being what they are. Basically, what happened was when they went to the multi categories, people who normally put in for "quality" were sitting on a lot of points. People that typically put in for cow tags for example were not, since they had a good chance of getting drawn every couple years.

Then, everyone started putting in for multiple categories, the odds in all categories got much steeper, and people with more points (usually) were drawing permits in more than 1 category. I think the odds of this happening will (and have) gone down as points distribute more naturally.

Again, it really was a result of the way points were applied to all categories. It will work itself out.

As far as allowing multi harvest tags, imagine a youth hunter drawing quality, bull, cow, youth elk...do they get to kill 4 elk?

I understand that the points will balance out down the road. I guess my "point" is why water down the odds to begin? No matter if you draw or not, by applying in a category you dont really care to draw your earning points and decreasing the odds of someone who may really want the tag. Example... My hunting partner has drawn 2 westside archery antlerless permits since the inception. The first was just a point burn as you suggest , but then again with a couple points? Neither were used because he shot an elk in general. I am sure thats often the case with some of these tags, but those applicants would be out of the pool and wouldnt even bother if it wasn't because "just in case, its only 6 bucks".  Like I said the department could maintain teh revenue stream by simply raising the cost of a single permit application to cover what would normally be spent applying for all three anyway.

[mfswallace]

Please take this suggestion from steelywopper with you! 

Lets say someone draws a quality Elk tag in Dayton and also draws a cow tag in the Clockum. Lets say the guy shoots his bull on the opening day of the Special hunt in Dayton, as it is now in the system he is done hunting elk for the year. I say we make it so the guy can purchase a second elk tag and go after the cow in the Clockum. What the heck is the reason for punishing people who draw special permits in two categories? Let them hunt for both animals. THe WDFW have already determined that X amount of cow tags or Bull tags for a certain area can be permitted. What the heck is the difference if a guy who draws nothing but a cow tag shoots one or a guy who has drawn a permit in two categories shoots it? We've paid for the points and played the game WDFW, Let us hunt!

[trophyhunt]

Please take this suggestion from steelywopper with you! 

Lets say someone draws a quality Elk tag in Dayton and also draws a cow tag in the Clockum. Lets say the guy shoots his bull on the opening day of the Special hunt in Dayton, as it is now in the system he is done hunting elk for the year. I say we make it so the guy can purchase a second elk tag and go after the cow in the Clockum. What the heck is the reason for punishing people who draw special permits in two categories? Let them hunt for both animals. THe WDFW have already determined that X amount of cow tags or Bull tags for a certain area can be permitted. What the heck is the difference if a guy who draws nothing but a cow tag shoots one or a guy who has drawn a permit in two categories shoots it? We've paid for the points and played the game WDFW, Let us hunt!

I do think this makes sense and will try to post it on the poll.  I will print out a copy and take it with me.  I added this question to the poll.

[Bullkllr]

   I don't have the years of experience in the draws many of you do. Went in with 12 points this Year. Personally.... I really think we have the fairest and most realistic point system available. The category split a few years back is what  shot down our draw odds. I understand it's a revenue generator for the state, but why not simply combine Fees and eliminate these multiple categories? if it's working the way we are speculating most folks are applying for all applicable categories. Some of these are "wasted" tags I am sure as I personally know of at least a dozen drawn cow tags that never even got hunted on. But regardless I know I would rather pay a one flat fee of say 25 bucks rather than split those fees over three categories (cow, bull, quality).

I would rather see separate categories eliminated, but as you suggest the DFW seems to like the added revenue.

I don't see the problem in the potential to draw more than 1 permit per species. It is part of the game. Apply strategically.I look at it more as potential wasted points rather than wasted permits. People that draw more than 1 still get to hunt where they want. If a guy has lots of points in multiple categories it is probably smart to modify the categories you are putting in for to avoid multiple selections. For example if I have an archery elk tag I would put in for quality, take the points option in the bull category, and probably not put in for cow at all.

I understand  feeling the need of putting in for all categories, with the draw odds on the quality hunts being what they are. Basically, what happened was when they went to the multi categories, people who normally put in for "quality" were sitting on a lot of points. People that typically put in for cow tags for example were not, since they had a good chance of getting drawn every couple years.

Then, everyone started putting in for multiple categories, the odds in all categories got much steeper, and people with more points (usually) were drawing permits in more than 1 category. I think the odds of this happening will (and have) gone down as points distribute more naturally.

Again, it really was a result of the way points were applied to all categories. It will work itself out.

As far as allowing multi harvest tags, imagine a youth hunter drawing quality, bull, cow, youth elk...do they get to kill 4 elk?

I understand that the points will balance out down the road. I guess my "point" is why water down the odds to begin? No matter if you draw or not, by applying in a category you dont really care to draw your earning points and decreasing the odds of someone who may really want the tag. Example... My hunting partner has drawn 2 westside archery antlerless permits since the inception. The first was just a point burn as you suggest , but then again with a couple points? Neither were used because he shot an elk in general. I am sure thats often the case with some of these tags, but those applicants would be out of the pool and wouldnt even bother if it wasn't because "just in case, its only 6 bucks".  Like I said the department could maintain teh revenue stream by simply raising the cost of a single permit application to cover what would normally be spent applying for all three anyway.

Agreed! The whole category BS is what screwed things up. I just can't imagine the DFW is anxious to go back to 1 application per species, but I support your idea of charging more per app and eliminating categories. It would theoretically give the same revenue support. And it would eliminate the double draws as well as make draw odds somewhere near realistic again.

The more I think about it, yours may be the best idea I've seen here! 

[Maverick]

Since you'll be a witness this year can you tell us when the drawing will happen?

[T Pearce]

No points.. No tag.

[benhuntin]

No points.. No tag.

you have one the first year

[WAPatriot]

Only two ways to increase draw odds increase number of tags or decrease number of applicants. State's objective is to make as much money possible. Price to apply for permit goes to 150 bucks for residents 3000 non residents for oil and quality state would make a killing. No points. Dan Agnew type would pay 3000 for a shot at a blues bull and a substantial less amount of residents would pay 150 for chance to get drawn. Obviously bull tags would need to cost less. But I'd like to see state do this for multi season. It's a Rich mans game and the prices need to come up in Washington if you want better odds its a fact. But hey thank the lord we can get an Otc tag every yr. you can kill a great elk every yr in Washington if you pay your dues.

If multi season elk cost 75 bucks to apply how many people would apply probably about 1000 chances are it's gonna take 75 dollars worth of application fees to get drawn any ways it just takes 10 yrs

[Bullkllr]

Want to screw things even more royally?

Let anyone who wants to buy more applications at an elevated price.

[stevemiller]

Drop the license purchase requirement to apply!

I disagree. I would like to see all permit holders have a valid big game hunting license and hunter safety card before they apply for hunts. Seems a bit rigged if a kid 3 months old can start "applying" causing point creap, and longer odds for us all that have actually been putting in. Im not trying to piss off any father's here bc I see the other side of the story where they might not have a chance to draw at all if you dont. But just sucks thinking about how some kid that may never even want to go hunting and his dad putting him in every year to get his tag and take him on a "hunting trip" when he gets drawn and then gets to watch old pops use his tag. I see this alot and I know people who buy tags for their wives that don't hunt and have never held a gun. But somehow they sure tag out every year. Somehow this needs to stop and people need to take a little more responsibility for doing what's right and not be so greedy.

I like this one lab,this one is the only change that makes sense.Example If I plan on having another kid should I start applying for him now( I know you cant) lol?no all applicants should have hunter safety card before any points can be built. 

[Alan K]

Please take this suggestion from steelywopper with you! 

Lets say someone draws a quality Elk tag in Dayton and also draws a cow tag in the Clockum. Lets say the guy shoots his bull on the opening day of the Special hunt in Dayton, as it is now in the system he is done hunting elk for the year. I say we make it so the guy can purchase a second elk tag and go after the cow in the Clockum. What the heck is the reason for punishing people who draw special permits in two categories? Let them hunt for both animals. THe WDFW have already determined that X amount of cow tags or Bull tags for a certain area can be permitted. What the heck is the difference if a guy who draws nothing but a cow tag shoots one or a guy who has drawn a permit in two categories shoots it? We've paid for the points and played the game WDFW, Let us hunt!

Losing points in both categories and only getting to harvest one animal is supposed to be the deterrent from applying in multiple categories, and net better odds for everyone.  If more people got burned by drawing multiple permits and losing both sets of points, it might deter the masses from applying for multiple. The odds of drawing a single permit for a species, let alone two are pretty long which is why so many people do it. Allowing two animals to be taken would only make more people apply for everything though. Myself and the majority of the guys and gals in my hunting party generally only apply in one category and ghost point the rest.  We'd all be applying for everything and draw odds would be pushed down further.

[Alan K]

. . . . . .  But just sucks thinking about how some kid that may never even want to go hunting and his dad putting him in every year to get his tag and take him on a "hunting trip" when he gets drawn and then gets to watch old pops use his tag. I see this alot and I know people who buy tags for their wives that don't hunt and have never held a gun. But somehow they sure tag out every year. Somehow this needs to stop and people need to take a little more responsibility for doing what's right and not be so greedy.

The way to stop it is to turn these people you know in for poaching. Nobody likes a rat, but the bottom line is that is what it would take to make them stop.  Imagine how much better hunting in WA (and probably all states for that matter I suppose) would be if everyone played by the rules!