Fishing for Native Steelhead

[bearpaw]

This topic was split so the ones who want to discuss the politics of fishing can continue. Do not post your rants on the original topic where the guy was showing us photos of his fish.

[TheHunt]

I am kind of suprised that many other fishing forum members have not jumped in...  Kind of nice that HW Fishing section pretty much stays within this group. 

[MtnMuley]

Thanks, Dale.   As per this new topic, I feel more focus needs to be directed in protecting these fisheries that might be in great danger, and I'm all in favor of making it catch and release if it has been decided to go that route.  I also wish there was a way to not allow tribal netting to have a severe impact on that fishery.  Until there has been something done with the law allowing an angler to retain a single "native" per year, then I can't say anything if an angler wants to take advantage if the situation and have potentially the best fish he's ever caught mounted.  As many have said, reproductions are also an option, but personally, I will only hang the natural skin mounts on the wall.  Mush more representative of the true trophy.

[Bullkllr]

  People are passionate about Steelhead as I know I am.         

This is an understatement!
This issue has been hashed out on forums, in bars, on riverbanks, in WDFW meetings, around campfires etc. to the Nth degree.
No matter where it is discussed, a lot of polarity eventually shows in opinions. It is a complicated issue for sure; and anyone who looks for a single or easy answer is fooling themselves.

I would like to see on-going civil discussion here, as I feel we all have a lot to contribute, as well something to learn. I know everyone feels like an expert, but research and investigation can sometimes uncover otherwise over-looked and very valuable information.

I'll start with suggesting a couple "good reads" on the subject:

http://www.nativefishsociety.org/conservation/documents/CR%20survival%20of%20winter%20sth%20AFS%202005.pdf

http://wildsteelheadcoalition.org/Repository/WSR%20rpt%20full.pdf Especially chapter 4

[Swatson]

  Thanks Bullkllr!  I agree!

[wafisherman]

Holding the fish out of water for pictures increases mortality rates.  As I said before, if you are truly concerned with wild steelhead stocks, you should not be fishing those waters otherwise you are a hypocrite!  By the way, I haven't bonked a native since they made the restriction.

if you know how to fight a fish quickly, remove the fly or lure hook from the corner of the jaw, gently revive while your buddy snaps a few pics... The fish is never fully removed from the water and quickly returns to finish its journey.

I have even taken a few pics myself (nobody with me), and didn't gave to remove the fish from the water - but a friend helping is a huge advantage.

According to most studies, you are killing fish wether you realize it or not, no matter how "gently" you think you are handling it which makes you no better than the guy who bonks one.

Of course there is a mortality rate, but it is very low IF you know how to fight a fish and aren't throat\gut\gill hooking them using bait...  So if there is a 5% mortality rate (pulling a number out of my a$$ since I don't have time to look it up... even assuming they have a study like this for native steelhead on our coastal rivers and take into account the duration of the fight, how hard it flopped in the boat or rocks, and where it was hooked) then it would still be way better than the 100% mortality rate of bonking the fish.

But I'm not knocking the OP.  It is a nice fish.  But knowing how this stuff works on the internet, I'd have gone about it differently.  Have your buddy getting a cool shot of you tailing the fish.  Head in the water at least half way.  No fingers in gills or giving a death squeeze or holding over rocks or a boat...  Post THAT picture on the internet.  Then guess what I'd do with that fish?  Trick question since it would be none of your business and I wouldn't tell either way.  And the internet police would have nothing to cry about and you wouldn't be encouraging others to bonk native fish and post them all over the internet as well.  Win win.

[wildmanoutdoors]

The only real way to not send steelhead into extinction is shut it all down.
Even if we stop the tribes wont. They will cry foregone oppertunity.

Did you know that C and R Forks guides like Bob Ball, Larry scott ect can log 400 steelhead a season easily?
At 3% kill rate thats 12 fish a season times maybe 15 guides alone! Thats 180 fish a year. And according to studies, 3% is low. Its probably more like 5 to 7 when you factor everyone playing C and R like other guides and sporties.
Bob Ball was also one of the founders of the WSC. It was a way to push his and like minded fisherpersons own agenda. They tried to force a statewide no kill ban. But they tried to push it thru the back door and when Forks city council found out they overturned it on the OP alone. This mostely came from one local catch and kill guide Jim Mansfield and his mom who was on the Forks city council.  And also one of Bob Balls biggest proponents.  This was a war to the point of the local guide playing dirty and even got to the point of no contact orders.
Imagine Bob launching first and Jim comming from behind. He cannot legaly be within set amount of space between the 2. So now legaly the guy in back cant catch or pass the front guy. Lol

So now we have greedy indians, greedy c and r guys and greedy
I wanna kill one too guys.

This all equals disaster for the fish.

Another fact people need to know is what it would take to stop the native peoples netting. Cause most of the uninformed always think its the WDFW's call. And couldent be more wrong.

The tribes set there own agenda. Then they bring it to the WDFW and have there closed door talks. The indians tell them what there going to do, the state says we dont have the runs to sustain that kind of impact, the tribes threatens a FEDERAL lawsuits with Fed Lawers you pay for and the state backs down because they cannot afford that kind of case. The State dosent have that kind of fundage.

So they easily get there way EVERYTIME!

Personally for me after 30 plus years of fishing both as sport and proffesional, I have pretty much given up on Steelhead fishing because of declined runs, over fishing, too much pressure, too many guides ect, ect. Its just not as fun anymore.
I will admit I have been a part of the problem. I will admit I am too passionate about it, and lastly I was wrong to flame anyone about not letting a wild steelhead go. I should have flamed for even fishing them in the firstplace.

[TheHunt]

I personally would like to see one or two rivers state wide which is C&R only. 

I would bet we would not see any change. 

I think the WDFW should be focused on having more fishing opportunities in the rivers.  Native fish at a statewide view...  Well, either they are all gone or they are so deluded it really does not matter. 

[pianoman9701]

I respect most of you guys. But this is really hypocritical. If your stand is that strong and you feel that deeply for protecting natural steelhead, your conscience should force you to stop fishing for them completely. Because according to ALL of the experts and studies, that's the only way you're going to stop killing them. And yes, I've seen your previous comments about the differences in releasing and fighting. You're lying to yourselves and are justifying behavior that's killing fish. Bash this guy all you want, (which I think is dumb). But as long as you're still catching these fish, releasing them or not, you haven't a single ethical leg on which to stand. Just my 

[wildmanoutdoors]

The Hunt I agree.
You have to stop the nets first! Then you could have a limited kill and a c and r fishery. We need to take lessons from our northern neighbors. Look what this has done for the Skeena system. Except they have no kill fishery. But I believe a c and r season is the same as a limited kill season. You just dont get to bonk and eat in a c and r season.
Even with there c and r season, the fish are making a comeback! granted these are BIG fish with completely different genitics and are much stronger during there fisheries. These fish come up in Sept thru Nov. Winter and feed under the ice, then spawn in June. So when there being tergeted. Sept thru Nov. There much stronger and still months from spawning.

[Bullkllr]

I respect most of you guys. But this is really hypocritical. If your stand is that strong and you feel that deeply for protecting natural steelhead, your conscience should force you to stop fishing for them completely. Because according to ALL of the experts and studies, that's the only way you're going to stop killing them. And yes, I've seen your previous comments about the differences in releasing and fighting. You're lying to yourselves and are justifying behavior that's killing fish. Bash this guy all you want, (which I think is dumb). But as long as you're still catching these fish, releasing them or not, you haven't a single ethical leg on which to stand. Just my 

I thought the idea of separating the thread was to continue a relevant discussion while removing the OP as a bashing target (which I agree he clearly did not deserve).

I can understand calling someone a hypocrite for the bashing, if they believe in catch and release (because it is impossible to arrive at 0% mortality).
I don't agree with painting everyone who supports catch and release as a hypocrite; that's an awfully broad brush.

[REHJWA]

I believe the issue that needs to be address is the miss management of the resource!
There are rivers if managed for hatchery fish that could relieve the pressure on native fish but it will never happen because it is easier/cheaper/political to ban sport fishing then it is to manage it.

[Bullkllr]

I believe the issue that needs to be address is the miss management of the resource!
There are rivers if managed for hatchery fish that could relieve the pressure on native fish but it will never happen because it is easier/cheaper/political to ban sport fishing then it is to manage it.

Management has been quite the mess, hasn't it?

Looking at the progression throughout the Puget Sound area- from catch & keep - to wild release - to full blown closures, it's pretty clear that's the way the WDFW prefers to manage. I think a lot of fishermen (myself included) see what has happened around the state and think it's only a matter of time for the peninsula rivers too. There are steelhead fisheries that attract tons of fishermen that coexist with catch & release rules. Tons of guys would love to be able to c & r on the Puget Sound rivers right now. Who knows if we'll ever see that again 

[wildmanoutdoors]

I believe the issue that needs to be address is the miss management of the resource!
There are rivers if managed for hatchery fish that could relieve the pressure on native fish but it will never happen because it is easier/cheaper/political to ban sport fishing then it is to manage it.

Who is mis manageing the resource?

[REHJWA]

I believe the issue that needs to be address is the miss management of the resource!
There are rivers if managed for hatchery fish that could relieve the pressure on native fish but it will never happen because it is easier/cheaper/political to ban sport fishing then it is to manage it.

Who is mis manageing the resource?

I believe the better question is WHO IS managing it?