How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?

[elk247]

I fixed it for you phool.    I don't expect to be allowed to hunt in late september. This thread is about the 2nd and 3rd week of september. That seems reasonable to me.

[pianoman9701]

I don't care. I can scare elk whenever the season starts and ends. I'm damned good at it.

[Jonathan_S]

I don't care. I can scare elk whenever the season starts and ends. I'm damned good at it.

   They hate the way I smell all month long   

[huntnphool]

I don't care. I can scare elk whenever the season starts and ends. I'm damned good at it.

[huntnphool]

Why are we worried about sneaking anything past a state biologist?  There is no science that says a later start date or longer season will increase the success rate or harvest rate...NONE.  Look at other states that have a month long season.  On average, success rates are the same as they are here!

The dates were changed because another user group complained about some undocumented and/or percieved advantage an archer might have over their user group.  Not true, no science to back it up!  The only way harvest would go up is if there were more archers.  If there were more archers, there would be less ML or less rifle hunters.  Therefore, harvest overall would still be about the same. 

There is no credible science behnd the assumption that moving the dates later in the month will cause anything different to happen. 

ET

So why the need to change anything then? 13 days is 13 days regardless what time of the month it is right? Just leave it starting the day after Labor Day and running 13 days.

[hughjorgan]

Why are we worried about sneaking anything past a state biologist?  There is no science that says a later start date or longer season will increase the success rate or harvest rate...NONE.  Look at other states that have a month long season.  On average, success rates are the same as they are here!

The dates were changed because another user group complained about some undocumented and/or percieved advantage an archer might have over their user group.  Not true, no science to back it up!  The only way harvest would go up is if there were more archers.  If there were more archers, there would be less ML or less rifle hunters.  Therefore, harvest overall would still be about the same. 

There is no credible science behnd the assumption that moving the dates later in the month will cause anything different to happen. 

ET

So why the need to change anything then? 13 days is 13 days regardless what time of the month it is right? Just leave it starting the day after Labor Day and running 13 days.

The main reason to change it back to the later date in my mind is the chance to get some cooler weather later into September. Lots of guys are out there trying to put some meat in the freezer on the east side especially and cooler weather is going to make for a easier time caring for your elk. I don't really care about the rut, they will be talking all month long any how.

[et1702]

Why are we worried about sneaking anything past a state biologist?  There is no science that says a later start date or longer season will increase the success rate or harvest rate...NONE.  Look at other states that have a month long season.  On average, success rates are the same as they are here!

The dates were changed because another user group complained about some undocumented and/or percieved advantage an archer might have over their user group.  Not true, no science to back it up!  The only way harvest would go up is if there were more archers.  If there were more archers, there would be less ML or less rifle hunters.  Therefore, harvest overall would still be about the same. 

There is no credible science behnd the assumption that moving the dates later in the month will cause anything different to happen. 

ET

So why the need to change anything then? 13 days is 13 days regardless what time of the month it is right? Just leave it starting the day after Labor Day and running 13 days.

Too hot, too dry, greater potential for meat spoilage, fire hazard and fire closures (as we've had the past couple years in a row), over crowding certain areas due to fires, etc.  Don't get me wrong, I've been archery hunting these amazing animals for over 35 years in most of the western states.  Each year for the past several years here in WA, I've usually tagged out on the first day or two.  Many others in my hunting party are also successful.  It's not that it can't be done at this time of year. 

But, being an archery hunter yourself, wouldn't you like to be in the woods when it's cooler and the animals are more vocal?  Enjoy a campfire with your buddies, etc.  It's just an exceptional time of year that I look forward too and start planning the next year as soon as the last season is over.  For me, it's more about the experience, than the kill.  I'll still be out there on Sept 2nd this year.  But, wouldn't you rather have a later start date too? 

In a perfect world, they'd open archery elk at the same time as archery deer (Sept 1 thru 22nd).  Personnally, I hate the Labor Day weekend closure.  While we are at it, the entire state should be open (i.e., any unit), rather than a few select units.  Spread everybody out.  But, that's another topic. 

ET

[et1702]

From what I know, there has been an increase archers in the past five years and a decrease in the number of big bulls we are taking. If the state is going to stick with this resource allocation, they are going to have to adjust the season timing to make sure equitable harvest of big bulls is maintained for the archery user group. Hopefully that gets us back to sept. 8-21 or close to it.

Hugh, This is a good point too.  But, what isn't said is that the number of rifle rut tags in most of the areas just went from one to two permits. most years, success on these permits is near 100%.  So, it looks like WDFW is giving archery's big bull allocation to the user group that whined the loudest the last time they made changes and stuck us with the floating start date.  With Archery's average 10% to 20% success rate on big bull tags, that's 5 to 10 more Quality Bull archery tags (in each unit) that they just gave to the rifle guys.

ET

[dreamingbig]

ET,

I have said a few times on here.  It is outrageous!

[hughjorgan]

From what I know, there has been an increase archers in the past five years and a decrease in the number of big bulls we are taking. If the state is going to stick with this resource allocation, they are going to have to adjust the season timing to make sure equitable harvest of big bulls is maintained for the archery user group. Hopefully that gets us back to sept. 8-21 or close to it.

Hugh, This is a good point too.  But, what isn't said is that the number of rifle rut tags in most of the areas just went from one to two permits. most years, success on these permits is near 100%.  So, it looks like WDFW is giving archery's big bull allocation to the user group that whined the loudest the last time they made changes and stuck us with the floating start date.  With Archery's average 10% to 20% success rate on big bull tags, that's 5 to 10 more Quality Bull archery tags (in each unit) that they just gave to the rifle guys.

ET

Rifle hunters have seen opportunity expand while archers have had our opportunity slashed. In the GMU I hunt the bull permits have been cut in half since 2008. The pendulum needs to start swinging back in our direction to balance the harvest out.

[Snapshot]

From what I know, there has been an increase archers in the past five years and a decrease in the number of big bulls we are taking. If the state is going to stick with this resource allocation, they are going to have to adjust the season timing to make sure equitable harvest of big bulls is maintained for the archery user group. Hopefully that gets us back to sept. 8-21 or close to it.

If it can be shown to be true that big bull harvest is down since the 2008 change and that other user groups are now taking more than their allotment then we would have a very strong stance in reversing the 2008 decision. At the time the decision was made it was said that the change would be a test to find out if it would make mature bull harvest equitable. If the pendulum has swung too far and archery hunters are now trailing in the taking of adult bulls then it is time to make corrections.

[dreamingbig]

Do we get to change the definition back to 6+ points too?


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[Snapshot]

Do we get to change the definition back to 6+ points too?


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I think they should define a Mature Bull for the sake of harvest stats the same way they define a Mature Bull in the Game Management Plan. It is foolish to lump the 5 point Immature Bulls (raghorns) in the harvest stats. I hope the Department straightens that out. If the Commission is shown the inconsistency they might have no choice!

[huntnphool]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,151376.msg2008091.html#msg2008091

 

[dreamingbig]

Yep, classic WDFW, they passed their chalk agenda.  No surprises; they only change what they want to change during a 3yr season package.


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