questionable Warden ruling

[pianoman9701]

My take on this: The hunter is responsible to know the rules/laws for the area in which he's hunting. The LE has no discretion to break the rules of a private landowner and, as a matter of fact, is a steward of the landowner's property with regards to hunters who use it. The hunter may have been able to contact the landowner to get permission to retrieve his elk after hours. Most likely, the landowner has been experiencing vandalism/dumping after hours and may have made an exception in this case were he/they contacted. Without giving them that option, there's no wiggle room as far as LE is concerned. I agree the waste of game and the trespassing charge sucks. Without trying to flame the hunter too badly, I would suggest he holds the responsibility for what happened.

[Bob33]

My take on this: The hunter is responsible to know the rules/laws for the area in which he's hunting. The LE has no discretion to break the rules of a private landowner and, as a matter of fact, is a steward of the landowner's property with regards to hunters who use it. The hunter may have been able to contact the landowner to get permission to retrieve his elk after hours. Most likely, the landowner has been experiencing vandalism/dumping after hours and may have made an exception in this case were he/they contacted. Without giving them that option, there's no wiggle room as far as LE is concerned. I agree the waste of game and the trespassing charge sucks. Without trying to flame the hunter too badly, I would suggest he holds the responsibility for what happened.

Slam the gavel. Court adjourned.

[bobcat]

I think there's lots of wiggle room. If not, they need to make it so that there is (the WDFW and the private landowner).

The WDFW and their employees should be on the same side as honest hunters.

This guy was not poaching. He should not have been tangled up in court with all the hassle and cost that goes along with that, on something that is just a technicality.

He was trying to do things right. The game warden should have seen that and made certain he got the elk out before it spoiled.

I want to see game wardens busting poachers, not honest hunters who are following the law.


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[Curly]

My take on this: The hunter is responsible to know the rules/laws for the area in which he's hunting. The LE has no discretion to break the rules of a private landowner and, as a matter of fact, is a steward of the landowner's property with regards to hunters who use it. The hunter may have been able to contact the landowner to get permission to retrieve his elk after hours. Most likely, the landowner has been experiencing vandalism/dumping after hours and may have made an exception in this case were he/they contacted. Without giving them that option, there's no wiggle room as far as LE is concerned. I agree the waste of game and the trespassing charge sucks. Without trying to flame the hunter too badly, I would suggest he holds the responsibility for what happened.

That may very well be true, but if the sign doesn't say a word about hours, why would a hunter bother to call to ask any additional rules? 

At the most, the warden could have warned the hunter that he could face trespassing charges if he stayed in there after dark.  If he then chose to go in and retrieve the animal then that might be his choice to accept the charge and get the meat.  To not let the guy get the meat out and add insult by citing him for trespass is harsh.   

[Elkpiss]

I think there's lots of wiggle room. If not, they need to make it so that there is (the WDFW and the private landowner).

The WDFW and their employees should be on the same side as honest hunters.

This guy was not poaching. He should not have been tangled up in court with all the hassle and cost that goes along with that, on something that is just a technicality.

He was trying to do things right. The game warden should have seen that and made certain he got the elk out before it spoiled.

I want to see game wardens busting poachers, not honest hunters who are following the law.


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bingo .. Dude was hunting a open unit and by the story was allowed to hunt where he was hunting, if you shoot one in the evening time then obviously a elk will take alot of time to get out and that will put you into the weeee hours of the morning even...  And Yes Gammies have the right to use discression on judgment calls...  and in my book that would be a no brainer...      F it, i am done with this topic.. Sorry to the hunter you had to waste which i am sure is your hard earned money on fighting this in court... and now i am sure you have a sour taste in your mouth and never want to hunt in WA again...  I dont see how any hunter could see this as nothing but a crappy deal...

[bigtex]

The warden says I am giving you a trespass 3 ticket then says I will follow you.

No such thing as a "trespass 3 ticket."

In WA there is Criminal Trespass 1st Degree which is buildings. Criminal Trespass 2nd Degree is everything other than buildings.

[stevemiller]

I agree with some of this But,Waiting a little bit for the animal to die and then tag and dress it was still best.Then he could have went down and got the help to carry it out,get stopped by gamie,told to leave,conclude to come back in the morning and retrieve,Done.Freezer full.No ticket.

[bobcat]

The warden says I am giving you a trespass 3 ticket then says I will follow you.

No such thing as a "trespass 3 ticket."

In WA there is Criminal Trespass 1st Degree which is buildings. Criminal Trespass 2nd Degree is everything other than buildings.

Isn't there a new one for trespass while hunting?


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[bigtex]

If it is private land, the warden must obey the landowner's rules. It is possible the landowner insisted on enforcing the access hours restriction. Otherwise, he should have been more helpful.

How can land owners kick off LEOs when they are engaged in a law enforcement situation? They have have control of the scene, let the hunter finish the job and then see that he leaves. It would be like any land owner trying to kick a sheriff off our private property if he was engaged in a investigation, not going to happen even if he doesnt have a search warrent, they wait untill they get one.

BigTex chime in please. 

Boss, I think you may be confused. I believe what Bob is saying that the officer is simply following the direction of the landowner, as in the landowner saying "cite everyone here after XX hours" and not that the officer must be off the land as well. But to answer your question, officers enforcing fish and wildlife laws are essentially exempt from trespass laws.

[buglebrush]

Seriously.     

The attitude of a lot of wardens is just sad. 

[bigtex]

The warden says I am giving you a trespass 3 ticket then says I will follow you.

No such thing as a "trespass 3 ticket."

In WA there is Criminal Trespass 1st Degree which is buildings. Criminal Trespass 2nd Degree is everything other than buildings.

Isn't there a new one for trespass while hunting?

Ya but it's not considered "trespass" in the title, it's "unlawful hunting on the property of another."

Still not getting what the "trespass 3" is 

[Elkpiss]

I agree with some of this But,Waiting a little bit for the animal to die and then tag and dress it was still best.Then he could have went down and got the help to carry it out,get stopped by gamie,told to leave,conclude to come back in the morning and retrieve,Done.Freezer full.No ticket.

Have you ever been elk hunting or Killed an Elk?? ahhhh i have let them lay for 4-6 hrs if is down and not dead yet.... Do you know what happens if you kick up a wounded elk from his bed??? ahhhh bye bye elk.....  So your telling me you would sit there for 4-6 hrs sitting in a clear cut waiting for it to die???  thats when time literally stops and second feel like minutes and minutes feels like hours... You leave and go back to town/camp or where ever you have to, too get your mind off that elk to give it the correct amount of time to die.. SO YES HEADING BACK TO TOWN WAS THE BEST THING HE COULD HAVE DONE!... PERIOD....  ok, now i am done with this topic..  no offense SM.. just a touchy subject for me..

[vandeman17]

I agree with some of this But,Waiting a little bit for the animal to die and then tag and dress it was still best.Then he could have went down and got the help to carry it out,get stopped by gamie,told to leave,conclude to come back in the morning and retrieve,Done.Freezer full.No ticket.

I respectfully disagree. I would have done the EXACT same thing, especially if I was unaware of the curfew so to speak. The last thing you want to do is push a wounded animal, especially at night. If it were later in the season with cooler temps, I would have come back at first light but from the sounds of it, it was early season and warm so I would have called in back up, gave him some time and then went in with multiple sets of eyes, ears, headlamps and eventually strong backs. 

[pianoman9701]

Sorry, but the landowner is the only one who gets to change the rules for his PRIVATE property. He can if he wants when he's given the chance. But until then, you'd better know the rules and follow them if you're going to use his/their land. If your ethical compass dictates that you must retrieve the animal after hours in spite of the rules, then good for you. I admire someone who will do the right thing in the face of fines and penalties. I'd probably risk the same. But if I get a ticket for it, so it goes.

[bobcat]

He not only got a ticket but he lost all the meat. Even if he had taken the time to gut it before going for help, I think he still would have lost a good portion of the meat. Since the warden wrote him a ticket anyway, he should have at least let him get the elk out.


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