questionable Warden ruling

[vandeman17]

Sorry, but the landowner is the only one who gets to change the rules for his PRIVATE property. He can if he wants when he's given the chance. But until then, you'd better know the rules and follow them if you're going to use his/their land. If your ethical compass dictates that you must retrieve the animal after hours in spite of the rules, then good for you. I admire someone who will do the right thing in the face of fines and penalties. I'd probably risk the same. But if I get a ticket for it, so it goes.

I agree Piano but I think the issues are 1) the hunter was unaware of the rule for access after hours and 2) the warden seemed to go against better judgement on this one. I find it similar to a police officer pulling over a speeding driver and finding out his wife is in labor. By the law, he is required to write the person a ticket but almost always will not because of the circumstances or will let them go and mail them a ticket to let them get to the hospital. I think the warden should have explained the rules and repercussions but allowed at least the hunter in to gut and get the elk cooling. Wardens should be well versed in all aspects of the hunt and he is as much to blame for the wasted meat as the hunter. Back to my speeding example, what if the officer held the driver and went through the normal protocol and she gave birth in the car? 

[Curly]

He not only got a ticket but he lost all the meat. Even if he had taken the time to gut it before going for help, I think he still would have lost a good portion of the meat. Since the warden wrote him a ticket anyway, he should have at least let him get the elk out.

 

That is what I was trying to say.  He really got screwed.  Should have at least let him gut it.

Why did the warden even allow him to go in and see the blood trail?  Was he just trying to see if the hunter was telling the truth about shooting an elk?  But if he was just testing the guy, then why bother giving him a ticket?  Doesn't make any sense.

[pianoman9701]

Sorry, but the landowner is the only one who gets to change the rules for his PRIVATE property. He can if he wants when he's given the chance. But until then, you'd better know the rules and follow them if you're going to use his/their land. If your ethical compass dictates that you must retrieve the animal after hours in spite of the rules, then good for you. I admire someone who will do the right thing in the face of fines and penalties. I'd probably risk the same. But if I get a ticket for it, so it goes.

I agree Piano but I think the issues are 1) the hunter was unaware of the rule for access after hours and 2) the warden seemed to go against better judgement on this one. I find it similar to a police officer pulling over a speeding driver and finding out his wife is in labor. By the law, he is required to write the person a ticket but almost always will not because of the circumstances or will let them go and mail them a ticket to let them get to the hospital. I think the warden should have explained the rules and repercussions but allowed at least the hunter in to gut and get the elk cooling. Wardens should be well versed in all aspects of the hunt and he is as much to blame for the wasted meat as the hunter. Back to my speeding example, what if the officer held the driver and went through the normal protocol and she gave birth in the car? 

1. There is no excuse for not knowing the landowner's rules. 2. When protecting the property of a landowner, there is no gray area unless the landowner makes it so. The reason this is different from pulling over a speeding driver is the private property rights. In public, the police have the ability to make a judgement call. On private land, the only one who can make a judgement call is the landowner.

Again, the ethical decision to try and take care of the animal was admirable. It comes with consequences in this case. Trespassing is the consequence.

If you shoot an elk outside a national monument or park and the elk runs in the park, your ethics may well tell you, as they would tell me, to go process the animal and get him out. But, it's your decision to break the law. If and when you get caught, you have ZERO defense.

[pianoman9701]

I'm done. I feel for the hunter. I really do.

[stevemiller]

I agree with some of this But,Waiting a little bit for the animal to die and then tag and dress it was still best.Then he could have went down and got the help to carry it out,get stopped by gamie,told to leave,conclude to come back in the morning and retrieve,Done.Freezer full.No ticket.

Have you ever been elk hunting or Killed an Elk?? ahhhh i have let them lay for 4-6 hrs if is down and not dead yet.... Do you know what happens if you kick up a wounded elk from his bed??? ahhhh bye bye elk.....  So your telling me you would sit there for 4-6 hrs sitting in a clear cut waiting for it to die???  thats when time literally stops and second feel like minutes and minutes feels like hours... You leave and go back to town/camp or where ever you have to, too get your mind off that elk to give it the correct amount of time to die.. SO YES HEADING BACK TO TOWN WAS THE BEST THING HE COULD HAVE DONE!... PERIOD....  ok, now i am done with this topic..  no offense SM.. just a touchy subject for me..

Yes,Yes.The op stated lots of blood,rolled down into brush,Thrashing around.Lots of blood,I wouldnt think any long amount of time.As for the wait,Whats a few more hours waiting when he was obviously hunting all day.I stand with what I posted allready,Tag,dress,Then go get packing help,fill the freezer.Why would this be a touch subject for you?I am impartial,not one sided at all.I only see what the op wrote and I see it in a diff. way than others which is fine and I stand by what I said as you stand by how you feel.I have not waited the 4-6 hours for any animal to die,Must be a shot placement issue.

[Bmcox86]

The warden should of gave himself a ticket for unlawful waste of a game animal! Disgusting

[Ccortez]

I would have told the warden to give me the ticket and I'll see him in court and finish getting my elk out. I will never let an animal sit over night anymore after the first and only one I did and the meat spoiled.  I felt like crap after that. So I won't let anyone tell me I would have to let my animal sit over night and get it in the morning

[JLS]

Me thinks there is more to the story.

PDR the case report.

[ICEMAN]

I agree with some of this But,Waiting a little bit for the animal to die and then tag and dress it was still best.Then he could have went down and got the help to carry it out,get stopped by gamie,told to leave,conclude to come back in the morning and retrieve,Done.Freezer full.No ticket.

Have you ever been elk hunting or Killed an Elk?? ahhhh i have let them lay for 4-6 hrs if is down and not dead yet.... Do you know what happens if you kick up a wounded elk from his bed??? ahhhh bye bye elk.....  So your telling me you would sit there for 4-6 hrs sitting in a clear cut waiting for it to die???  thats when time literally stops and second feel like minutes and minutes feels like hours... You leave and go back to town/camp or where ever you have to, too get your mind off that elk to give it the correct amount of time to die.. SO YES HEADING BACK TO TOWN WAS THE BEST THING HE COULD HAVE DONE!... PERIOD....  ok, now i am done with this topic..  no offense SM.. just a touchy subject for me..

I totally disagree.

I would argue that he should have stayed and been there in listening distance for the death, then swept in and tagged, gutted and began transporting meat.

I am sick of guys abandoning for some unknown length of time. These are the guys who report back that the meat was spoiled when they finally got serious enough to go back and look. You owe it to the elk to be miserable with it as it dies. Do the right thing. Stay. Listen, then go claim it before things spoil.

Besides, in this case the Gamie would probably not have even found the hunter, not cited, and not ended up wasting the animal.

Come on guys, let's not see any wasted animals in 2014!

Flame away...

[bigtex]

Me thinks there is more to the story.

PDR the case report.

[Knocker of rocks]

This one? 

[BKMFR]

If I shot it, I'm going to go get it.....period. Would take them to court before wasting the meat(if they didn't shoot me in the back). Any person(Judge) with common sense would understand, or at least in my world I would hope so....

[stevemiller]

If your not there when it dies you cant IMEDIATLEY tag it.Thanks Ice I agree 100%

[JLS]

I agree with some of this But,Waiting a little bit for the animal to die and then tag and dress it was still best.Then he could have went down and got the help to carry it out,get stopped by gamie,told to leave,conclude to come back in the morning and retrieve,Done.Freezer full.No ticket.

Have you ever been elk hunting or Killed an Elk?? ahhhh i have let them lay for 4-6 hrs if is down and not dead yet.... Do you know what happens if you kick up a wounded elk from his bed??? ahhhh bye bye elk.....  So your telling me you would sit there for 4-6 hrs sitting in a clear cut waiting for it to die???  thats when time literally stops and second feel like minutes and minutes feels like hours... You leave and go back to town/camp or where ever you have to, too get your mind off that elk to give it the correct amount of time to die.. SO YES HEADING BACK TO TOWN WAS THE BEST THING HE COULD HAVE DONE!... PERIOD....  ok, now i am done with this topic..  no offense SM.. just a touchy subject for me..

I totally disagree.

I would argue that he should have stayed and been there in listening distance for the death, then swept in and tagged, gutted and began transporting meat.

I am sick of guys abandoning for some unknown length of time. These are the guys who report back that the meat was spoiled when they finally got serious enough to go back and look. You owe it to the elk to be miserable with it as it dies. Do the right thing. Stay. Listen, then go claim it before things spoil.

Besides, in this case the Gamie would probably not have even found the hunter, not cited, and not ended up wasting the animal.

Come on guys, let's not see any wasted animals in 2014!

Flame away...

Personally, I'm not going to waste my buddies' time until:

1)  I've recovered the animal.
2)  Tagged it and made it into packable pieces.
3)  I have cold beer available for them.

[buckfvr]

Every time in the woods, you should be prepared for success............priority 1 is recover and remove...........even after dark.