Phelps/Hunt-Wa Elk Hunting Q&A

[bowhunterforever]

Tag

[pd]

I am along for the ride, too.

[Rainier10]

Hey Josh, not sure what Jason's reply is gonna be but in that situation for me when elk or deer are raking hard like that I close the distance and move to where I can get a shot.  Imagine how loud those limbs are as the animal is raking them in between its ears.  It has worked 2 out of 3 times for me to get close enough to take a shot.  Once I connected on a deer, once the arrow came off my rest, the other time I got busted by a cow before I got to the bull.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Jackelope ...I know you ask Jason the question but I am sure there is more than one answer  I would have let him walk off and moved into where he was and try calling again    just like if I was turkey hunting ...

[WapitiTalk1]

  We had a bull I called in last fall stop in thick timber and start raking trees. I could see the trees swaying, he came in silent and hung up. He was about 60-70 yards and we couldn't see him. This went on for 10-15 minutes and eventually he wandered off. I could cow call and he'd start raking again for a short time, then stop. Cow call again, he'd get all wadded up and tear into the tree. Eventually I stopped all together thinking maybe he'd walk out or move or something to where we could see him....nothing. I tried a wimpy sounding bugle and got nothing. Eventually the wind swirled and he busted, but he busted calmly...just kinda trotted off.  Just curious what the right thing to do "could have" been in that scenario. I know I had no clue what to do and was just throwing stuff out there to no avail. It was thick brush/timber and we were outside of that on the edge of an open meadow, and there were some cows present...we could hear them calling back and forth too. 

Curious to hear Jason's thought on this but here's my .02 (which is probably worth about that much  ).  Although it's very tempting, it is not usually a good idea to set up too close to meadows, particularly on the edge when calling.  Too much space and too many things that can go wrong.  It's best to be in the timber at least 40 or 50 yards (at least).  About that bull that came in and raking his butt off.. he was advertising to you and your cow calls (saying I am so cool and such a handsome guy, YOU, need to come over here now).  Later in the rut when this guy becomes a bit more vocal, he quite possibly would have thrown some chuckles your way which is in essence, the same message.  I believe your best chance, cover/concealment/wind permitting, would have been to give him what he's asking for... your presence much closer.  He got suspicious after a while that this cow would not come in to his advertising and headed out.  Just my meager thoughts brother.  RJ     

[Nice Racks]

Jason,

         I'm about as green as they come when it comes to elk hunting (this will be my 3rd year), and come early Sept I would rather be "hunting" elk rather than "scouting" for them . What do you look for when scouting this time of year, and can you take me through the following months leading up to opening day?

Respectfully,
Tm

[JPhelps]

Jason-
Meant to ask you this a few weeks ago and never got around to it.
We had a bull I called in last fall stop in thick timber and start raking trees. I could see the trees swaying, he came in silent and hung up. He was about 60-70 yards and we couldn't see him. This went on for 10-15 minutes and eventually he wandered off. I could cow call and he'd start raking again for a short time, then stop. Cow call again, he'd get all wadded up and tear into the tree. Eventually I stopped all together thinking maybe he'd walk out or move or something to where we could see him....nothing. I tried a wimpy sounding bugle and got nothing. Eventually the wind swirled and he busted, but he busted calmly...just kinda trotted off.  Just curious what the right thing to do "could have" been in that scenario. I know I had no clue what to do and was just throwing stuff out there to no avail. It was thick brush/timber and we were outside of that on the edge of an open meadow, and there were some cows present...we could hear them calling back and forth too.

Thanks for this thread...cool idea, and sticky'd!
-Josh

Josh,
He was at an advantage being able to see out into the brighter open area.  One thing I have found is that when a bull is raking you can make up ground on them.  You could have tried moving closer (If it was possible).  Could you tell if it was a herd bull that had left his cows or a satellite bull?  I'm thinking if it was a herd bull he may not have been willing to get any further from his cows.  Also he expected you as a cow to go to him? 

That is a tough one and a lot of times the decision is made in the field, in the moment.

[JPhelps]

Jason,

         I'm about as green as they come when it comes to elk hunting (this will be my 3rd year), and come early Sept I would rather be "hunting" elk rather than "scouting" for them . What do you look for when scouting this time of year, and can you take me through the following months leading up to opening day?

Respectfully,
Tm

From the Computer: Areas that have food, water and bedding.  Hidden pockets away from pressure
Boots on the Ground: Rubs, Tracks/Trails (depending on where you hunt some elk NEVER migrate), and real elk.

As season gets closer keep asking questions and I will keep you updated with my scouting progression and what I'm doing (exploring new areas, setting cams, finding elk and patterning).

[WapitiTalk1]

Jason, what is your preference when finally "in close" to a bull with cows.  Do you lean towards using what got you close in the first place (perhaps lost/pleading cow noises, letting the bull draw you in), or, have you had better success with "I'm gonna blow your head gear off" challenging bull sounds once in that critical very close zone?  Thank you sir.  I'm really enjoying this thread. 

[JPhelps]

My "GO TO" sequence is:
Start of with a needy estrus whine immediately followed by a Challenge Bugle.

I try painting the picture "one of your cows on the outskirts of the herd is going into estrus and this new bull is taking her".  This works best when you can close the distance to 60-100 yards (that is the caller). I love 2 man calling setups but what happens when the "threat" moves itself to 150 yards while the shooter is at 80 or 100?  In my opinion you have slightly stacked the odds against your setup.

[Lingcod]

Tag

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Jason-
Meant to ask you this a few weeks ago and never got around to it.
We had a bull I called in last fall stop in thick timber and start raking trees. I could see the trees swaying, he came in silent and hung up. He was about 60-70 yards and we couldn't see him. This went on for 10-15 minutes and eventually he wandered off. I could cow call and he'd start raking again for a short time, then stop. Cow call again, he'd get all wadded up and tear into the tree. Eventually I stopped all together thinking maybe he'd walk out or move or something to where we could see him....nothing. I tried a wimpy sounding bugle and got nothing. Eventually the wind swirled and he busted, but he busted calmly...just kinda trotted off.  Just curious what the right thing to do "could have" been in that scenario. I know I had no clue what to do and was just throwing stuff out there to no avail. It was thick brush/timber and we were outside of that on the edge of an open meadow, and there were some cows present...we could hear them calling back and forth too.

Thanks for this thread...cool idea, and sticky'd!
-Josh

Jackelope ...I know you ask Jason the question but I am sure there is more than one answer  I would have let him walk off and moved into where he was and try calling again    just like if I was turkey hunting ...

My opinion this shows a common situation.
An elk knows where the sound came from, and is at least as smart as I am.
I dont want to be seen, the elk wants to see something before it will show itself, so it "displays" by raking.
I do this all the time, I get set-up in a good vantage point where I can see, have plenty of shooting lanes, but the elk wont come past a certain point. 
I would stop and evaluate the wind,  do a big circle to get downwind, move as close as the thick stuff as I could to break up my outline, and force my scent away, and look for a trail to follow, move into area where, if you see an elk, it will be in range, then some excited cow calls followed by some raking of your own..... 

They never do what you want them to anyways.

[Big6bull]

Jason I have two questions, I have several cow calls and a couple from you, I have trouble with all of them getting wet and "seazing up" unable to call properly. Usually when I need them the most lol. Dollar bill under the reed helps for a little bit. Anything I can do? And as a solo hunter often. Do u call solo or always in a team? Is there anything perticular to help calling the bull into a spot I can actually get a shot off lol

Thanks

[JPhelps]

On the external calls spray both the black plastic board and Mylar reed with own cooking spray and wide dry. Also try not to drink sugary drinks or eat sugary drinks right before using the call. Rinse with water if you can.

We try to call as a team as much as possible, but I've had a lot of luck calling solo as well. Try to setup up with good shooting lanes out in front of you. It's not worth getting yourself into a position to quick and then not being able to get a shot off. Use the terrain and wind to your advantage and predict where the elk will end up.

[fair-chase]

Situation:
It's the first week of October and the herds you have scouted have vanished. Likely due to pressure from archery and special draw hunters. Hunting grounds are steep and thick. There's not enough breakup in the canopy to allow for effective glassing in most areas (think extreme NE corner or Peninsula type ground). Very few logging roads so most travel is strictly cross country without a trail system.

Questions:
(1) What is your preferred method for locating the elk this late in the breeding season.

(2) How would you navigate this terrain in search of elk? Would you stay on ridge tops in order to move fast(er) and cover ground? Side hill at expected holding elevations? Creek bottoms to look for tracks?

(3) If using calls to locate, what type and how aggressive in cold calling/locating situations?