Vortex Razor HD 20-60x85mm vs. Swarovski 20-60x80mm non HD older models

[Karl Blanchard]

Vortex Razor HD 20-60x85mm and Swarovski  20-60x80mm.  I know this topic has been beaten to death but I am bored so I am gonna bring it up again.  For the guys that have used both, which is the better glass and why?  Also, I am not talking brand new Swarovski HD glass.  I am talking used, non hd stuff that you can get for around 2k.

[Karl Blanchard]

 

[SilkOnTheDrySide]

I have a 20-60 swaro ATM (non hd) and was really struggling with the decision....

Got lucky and cabelas had a close out...picked it up for 800 bucks. Made my decision easy.

I've had zero regrets, but I'm dying to get some field time behind a razor so I can see if I missed out at all!!!


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[Bean Counter]

If you want to hear from people with multiple spotters, you need to go to a bird forum. I spent quite a bit of time on them a few years ago when I was researching my glass purchases. Hunters know a lot about most of our gear, but birders got our butts kicked by far when it comes to optics.

I have Nikon HD glass (spotter and binos). Never owned Either of the brands you ask about but I have compared my Nikon side by side with both. Vortex mid range stuff looked awful by comparison and their top end stuff looked close but I prefer what I have, maybe because it's what I'm used to. As far as swaro goes their stuff is nice but I have looked through many and haven't markedly bested my glass with them. Not bad for spending less than 1/2 the cost when comparing a hot deal to swaro MSRP.  If money is no object go ahead with swaro but they don't seem to run sales and people ask for higher prices on the used market.  HTH.

[Karl Blanchard]

If you want to hear from people with multiple spotters, you need to go to a bird forum. I spent quite a bit of time on them a few years ago when I was researching my glass purchases. Hunters know a lot about most of our gear, but birders got our butts kicked by far when it comes to optics.

I have Nikon HD glass (spotter and binos). Never owned Either of the brands you ask about but I have compared my Nikon side by side with both. Vortex mid range stuff looked awful by comparison and their top end stuff looked close but I prefer what I have, maybe because it's what I'm used to. As far as swaro goes their stuff is nice but I have looked through many and haven't markedly bested my glass with them. Not bad for spending less than 1/2 the cost when comparing a hot deal to swaro MSRP.  If money is no object go ahead with swaro but they don't seem to run sales and people ask for higher prices on the used market.  HTH.

I never thought about bugging the bush hippies!   I agree that the cost of new Swaro is just not realistic for my budget.  Thank you all for the input so far.

[Bob33]

I own a Swaro 80mm scope and have looked through many other scopes including Vortex.

My personal favorite glass is top end Nikon.

It would be hard to bet againist Swarovski in that race, but the added cost is hard to justify when other optics are so good these days.

I suspect that between the two you are comparing, the differences are minor and come down to personal preference as much as anything. i've looked through some friend's binoculars that are crap, and they love them. They look through alpha glass and can't tell the difference.

What that means is that you are really the only judge that matters.

[Karl Blanchard]

I own a Swaro 80mm scope and have looked through many other scopes including Vortex.

My personal favorite glass is top end Nikon.

It would be hard to bet againist Swarovski in that race, but the added cost is hard to justify when other optics are so good these days.

I suspect that between the two you are comparing, the differences are minor and come down to personal preference as much as anything. i've looked through some friend's binoculars that are crap, and they love them. They look through alpha glass and can't tell the difference.

What that means is that you are really the only judge that matters.

Good way to "look at it"   

[deerhunter_98520]

I have the razor HD and I absolutely love it.....I had it side by side with the new swaro hd and non hd....yes it was only in the store and mid day but I personally couldnt see much difference...not a few thousand dollars difference.....now from what I researched it is at first and last light where you tell the difference but the razor HD does awesome and is more than bright enough for me....now I went from a Bushnell trophy spotter to the razor HD so there was a huge difference in what I was used to but vortex has me sold on their products and will be a customer for life.....not to mention their outstanding warranty....I had myself convinced I was going to save up for a swaro I wanted to purchase a spotting scope one time and be done so I was just waiting for a good deal to pop up and a lot of people said try vortex and I went and found one and was amazed at how clear it was...easy to focus...the 2 stage focus is great for getting the fine detail....here's a pic taken through my razor at over a mile away with holding just my phone up to the eye piece and starting to get dark ...its kind of a pain to get the phone still and in focus...will be getting the digiscope adapter...if you decide to go vortex get ahold Paul (elknut1)


Here's one from mid afternoon

[b23]

Some of your findings mirror what my dad and I found out as well.

I have the mid level Nikon Fieldscope.  A few years back my dad bought a new 80mm Swaro STS from Bear Basin.  We put them side by side on window mounts and compared them back and forth at the same power settings up to 45 in a variety of different light conditions.  In the different side by side comparisons we could only really find one noticeable difference and it was a very slight difference and that was in very low light conditions his Swaro was a tiny bit better but we both agreed it was so minimal it certainly wasn't worth the substantial difference in cost. 

My dad was less than thrilled so they allowed him to send the body back and he upgraded to the HD model and paid the difference as well as they suggested he go with the wide angle 25-50 eye piece so he bought that too.

When it arrived we did the same side by side comparison but this time it was with both eye pieces, 20x60 & 25-50, and the new 80mm HD body.  Results we nearly identical with the exception we thought the colors were slightly more vivid with the HD Swaro.  In perfect light the results were what you'd expect and we struggled to find any difference.  Overcast, shadows, or low light they were still vary comparable and it was very hard to say one was clearly better than the other.  Again, in very low light the Swaro was better.  The image in very low light, and when I say very low light it was in the evening at long past legal hunting hours, appeared brighter.  It wasn't really any clearer but you could switch back and forth with both scopes sitting there side by side and looking at the same object the object in those conditions always appeared a little brighter in the Swaro.  As for both eye pieces I liked the wide angle eye piece slightly better than the 20x60.

My dad recently switched to a new Kowa spotting scope but I've only minimally messed with it.  My initial thoughts are it's going to be better straight across the board but until we hang them side by side I can't say for certain that it is and how much better it is, only time will tell.

IMO, if cost is no concern, I think Swaro makes the best binos I've ever looked thru but there spotting scopes seem to fall a bit short.  Especially, when you factor in their cost.

Vortex, IMO, makes the best bang for you buck with their Viper binos and I really like their new HS-T rifle scope.  BUT, I've never compared their Spotting scopes side by side and IMHO, that is the only way to truly tell. 

Just a FYI, if you're in the market for a compact spotting scope you can throw in a backpack but still has excellent glass, Nikon has a little 50mm HD spotter that is unbelievably good.  I think it's size throws people off but if you need a spotter you can easily pack, that little Nikon 50 HD would be my only choice.

[deerhunter_98520]

Maybe we need to have a spotting scope get together to compare them 

[SilkOnTheDrySide]

So just keep in mind it's not necessarily always about image quality on quick side by side comparisons (though that's important) but generally higher end glass gives you less eye fatigue.

I was able to sit behind my swaro for hours (10-12 per day) and not garner a headache.

I'm not saying other glass would be better or worse, just pointing out other factors that go into choosing a spotter.


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[deerhunter_98520]

  I forgot to mention that....no more headaches from the bushnell

[b23]

Maybe we need to have a spotting scope get together to compare them 

That's actually not a bad idea.  Not only is having another reason for being out in the woods a good idea but comparing spotters, binos, and scopes out in the area/s you'll be using them is a good idea as well.  I give that 

[b23]

So just keep in mind it's not necessarily always about image quality on quick side by side comparisons (though that's important) but generally higher end glass gives you less eye fatigue.

I was able to sit behind my swaro for hours (10-12 per day) and not garner a headache.

I'm not saying other glass would be better or worse, just pointing out other factors that go into choosing a spotter.

Good point but I think most of your better stuff will be pretty comparable in that department.  I've always been pretty lucky to mostly only have used, at least for any length of time that is, the better quality spotting scopes so I've never had this be a problem.

I've also got a set of 15x56 Vortex Kaibab binos that I really like and when I'm scanning searching large areas I much prefer to use those but if I'm looking at a specific spot, my spotter always trumps my Kaibabs.

[Crunchy]

I made the comparison of the two spotters you mentioned and clearly the SWARO was better.  More clear, and crisp image.  Nothing huge but if I can notice a difference at 400 yards in clearity, then at a mile it is only going to be more noticable.  There was a weight difference as well but I cannot remember what that was.  I purchased the Swaro

[Karl Blanchard]

Just got an email from Outdoorsmans about their used optics.  They have an 80mm STS for 2k.  Hmmm.......

[Bean Counter]

HD model?

[Karl Blanchard]

HD model?

non HD.  They do have an HD model for $2100 but I'm skeptical on its condition for that price.  I sent them an email so we will see what they shoot back with.

[Bigshooter]

At cameraland ny you can get the Nikon Fieldscope 20-60x85 EDG, $2000 for a demo last time I checked.  Brand new I think they are real close to $4000.  I am a huge swarovski guy but this is going to be my next spotter.


I just checked they still have demo's for $2000.

[columbiaman]

You can want to check Zen-Ray ED2 spotter for $900.  Optically, it is much brighter than the Vortex Razor, very similar to Swarovski ATS spotter. By much brighter, it means that you can really tell the difference.  I suspect some coating in the Razor is not up the standard.  Resolution wise, they are all well made.

http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/zenspotter82-angled-demo.html

[JPhelps]

You can want to check Zen-Ray ED2 spotter for $900.  Optically, it is much brighter than the Vortex Razor, very similar to Swarovski ATS spotter. By much brighter, it means that you can really tell the difference.  I suspect some coating in the Razor is not up the standard.  Resolution wise, they are all well made.

http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/zenspotter82-angled-demo.html

What Razor spotter did you look through?  All of the razors I have looked through are right on par with the upper end Swarovski glass.

[JPhelps]

I say that after using a $4000 Swaro 85 STX last year.

[jjhunter]

I use an 80 HD, but to tell you the truth, I have never been really impressed with any spotter.    One thing a lot of guys don't take into consideration is how glass performs after a couple seasons of use.  The high end stuff doesn't waiver - a lot of stuff that looks good at first, starts to slip over time...

[Bean Counter]

Huh? What glass are you using?? 

I love my high end Nikon stuff now more than ever. Opening morning every fall I continue to be pleased when I  look through it.

[Benny]

I hate spotters. I could sit behind a set of 10's or 15's for twenty hours a day, smiling and loving every second of it, 20 seconds of looking through a spotter and I'm ready to take a nap. Unfortunately spotters are a necessary evil.

[jjhunter]

Huh? What glass are you using?? 

I love my high end Nikon stuff now more than ever. Opening morning every fall I continue to be pleased when I  look through it.

I've owned 12 pieces of Alpha glass from the top 3 and either owned/demo'd most everything else on the way up.   I'd say that qualifies me to an opinion?

Benny - right there with you brother.

[MtnMuley]

I'd personally take a non-HD Swaro any day over the Razor HD.

I hate spotters. I could sit behind a set of 10's or 15's for twenty hours a day, smiling and loving every second of it, 20 seconds of looking through a spotter and I'm ready to take a nap. Unfortunately spotters are a necessary evil.

I agree as well.  Have you used the newer HD Swaro with the 95mm obj yet? 

[SCRUBS]

I use an 80 HD, but to tell you the truth, I have never been really impressed with any spotter.    One thing a lot of guys don't take into consideration is how glass performs after a couple seasons of use.  The high end stuff doesn't waiver - a lot of stuff that looks good at first, starts to slip over time...

What causes the glass to deteriorate?

[Benny]

I agree as well.  Have you used the newer HD Swaro with the 95mm obj yet? 

Just a peak but haven't really sat behind them for any time. Sure are cool.

Have you seen the new 15s? Worth every red, financed penny.

[jjhunter]

I use an 80 HD, but to tell you the truth, I have never been really impressed with any spotter.    One thing a lot of guys don't take into consideration is how glass performs after a couple seasons of use.  The high end stuff doesn't waiver - a lot of stuff that looks good at first, starts to slip over time...

What causes the glass to deteriorate?

I am not making a blanket statement here, but my guess would be inferior lense coatings and seals.

[jjhunter]

I agree as well.  Have you used the newer HD Swaro with the 95mm obj yet? 

Just a peak but haven't really sat behind them for any time. Sure are cool.

Have you seen the new 15s? Worth every red, financed penny.

I need a pair!  Sold my "old ones". Now just need to pull the trigger on the HD version.

[Bean Counter]

Huh? What glass are you using?? 

I love my high end Nikon stuff now more than ever. Opening morning every fall I continue to be pleased when I  look through it.

I've owned 12 pieces of Alpha glass from the top 3 and either owned/demo'd most everything else on the way up.   I'd say that qualifies me to an opinion?

Benny - right there with you brother.

Are you cleaning them with Windex or some other ammonia based product? 

[jjhunter]

Huh? What glass are you using?? 

I love my high end Nikon stuff now more than ever. Opening morning every fall I continue to be pleased when I  look through it.

I've owned 12 pieces of Alpha glass from the top 3 and either owned/demo'd most everything else on the way up.   I'd say that qualifies me to an opinion?

Benny - right there with you brother.

Are you cleaning them with Windex or some other ammonia based product? 

Yep, windex and a shop towel.   

[Bean Counter]

I hope you're joking. ammonia based glass cleaning products will erode the hard multicoatings that are applied to all external glass that would explain a decline in performance over the years. Otherwise, I'm really curious how your top end glass has declined in quality.

[jjhunter]

I've never had an issue with high end stuff.  That was my point.

[Benny]

Haha...would windex work better than Copenhagen spit. If so, I'm switching.

[Bean Counter]

I've never had an issue with high end stuff.  That was my point.

Gotcha. I went back and reread your post.

[MtnMuley]

I agree as well.  Have you used the newer HD Swaro with the 95mm obj yet? 

Just a peak but haven't really sat behind them for any time. Sure are cool.

Have you seen the new 15s? Worth every red, financed penny.

I have not.  My 15's never seem to make it on the hill,  let alone out of the house. HD EL 10's and spotter it is for me.