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Author Topic: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service  (Read 19238 times)

Offline Ruttn Bulls

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2014, 06:45:21 AM »
WoW!!  I am new to post here....previous lurker.

Alarming OP.

What an eye opener here on the Ultra Lite.  I just ordered one from Sportsmans web page for an in store free "Ship to" pick-up.  Have not heard yet about its arrival to my local (2 hrs. away) store.  Going to be my first ML and really have been trying to read everything I can get my hands on about ML'ing and the Ultra lite specifically.  Now I'm a little cooled off on the idea of the Ultra. 

Curious If I was to go through with the deal (which if I understand it right from Sportsmans -- I can still decline upon my inspection --  as long as I don't leave the store with it!) is there a sure fire way to look at this thing when I go to get it to determine if it is a gun out of  the "Bad" lot leftovers.  For example,  pull the BP right there in the store and whip out my calipers and measure the length of it??  Any other identification ideas?  Serial #'s ect.?

This sounds like a real headache to take on willingly knowing about the situation.......as a Newbie especially!!

I am so thankful for you guys here sharing your information with all.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2014, 07:49:19 AM »
I believe that with calipers you can determine if the breech plug is the correct length. Sabotloader will be the best one to answer that.

I'm still waiting for the correct breech plug. The first one sent that "tested OK in an Ultra-Lite barrel" was another incorrect one. The one that was "overnighted" to me on Wednesday has yet to arrive.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Ruttn Bulls

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2014, 10:40:34 AM »
Yea maybe I'll send "Sabot" a PM to get the proper length of the BP if he doesn't chime in here before I get the call to come in and pick it up.    Wonder if Sportsman's will let me pull that out right there on their counter top to measure it??  By the way what is the socket size I need or is there actually a tool in the box to pull that thing? 


Offline usmc74

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2014, 11:14:18 AM »
Do they have a place in back you can pop a cap?

Offline Bob33

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2014, 11:28:40 AM »
Yea maybe I'll send "Sabot" a PM to get the proper length of the BP if he doesn't chime in here before I get the call to come in and pick it up.    Wonder if Sportsman's will let me pull that out right there on their counter top to measure it??  By the way what is the socket size I need or is there actually a tool in the box to pull that thing?
There is a tool in the box for removing the plug. They should let you pull the plug under the circumstances. I can caliper my defective ones tonight and post. (I have two!) I believe they are 30/1000ths of an inch short.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Ruttn Bulls

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2014, 11:30:33 AM »
Not a bad idea there USMC.  Wonder if they would go for that???


Offline Ruttn Bulls

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2014, 11:40:45 AM »
Thank You Bob.

That would be great.

Hate to just walk away from the gun if it by chance wasn't in the "Bad" BP lot.  Sure looks like a great gun other than that.  Have had my mind made up for quite a while on trying one.  Guess I don't know what i'd drop back and try if I pass on it.  Hunting in Eastern Oregon Elk and Deer.   The weight looks sooooo nice for steep ground.


Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2014, 12:15:06 PM »
No body hates what is going on more than I or the manager at Knight.  but it is out there and Knight has to deal with it. The best part I know they will...

Ruttn Bulls sent me a PM and I am just going to post it and the reply here - hope that is OK with RB...

Hello Sabot....


New here but have made a couple posts on the "sportsmans and Knight" thread.

Pretty concerned here as I just bought a new Ultra Lite end of last week from Sportsmans.  The wrong BP sounds like a real hassle.  I'm new to ML'ing and was really wanting one of these guns for most all of the reasons you talk about in your posts.  However,  not looking for this kind of headach at all.

#1 I think you probably can not buy a more universal ML's you can and under normal circumstances I would say really rely on high quality... But, Knight has identified that the breech plugs in most newly built Mountaineer/Ulite rifles are to short.  The BP is cut to 1.33" long to accommodate the Knight nipple.  In late December Knight re=spec'ed the breech plug length to 1.349" and then issued and work order to build the correct length plug.  Those plugs came in a short time back, but they were not built to new specs.  Knight is scrambling to get an emergency order of the new plugs of the correct length in and out to dealers for replacement.  I honestly do not know when those will be available, but Knight can build one for you of the correct length.

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I appreciate your willingness to share and educate as your adventures unfold.  I see you mention the "New" length of the BP to rectify this issue.  I thought I might take the calipers into the store and pull the plug and measure it right there before I accept the gun and walk out with it.  Is the number you suggested the true LOA or something different?  I want to make sure I know what I am doing before I go in there.

A mic will let you know for sure but really there is so little difference it might be hard to get a good measurement.  Another method, which is not very scientific is to visually inspect the rifle through the bolt vent. The hammer when fired should be less than a sheet of paper thickness from touching the nipple of the breech plug.

I recognize, and so does Knight this is a problem, but it really is an easily fixed problem. I really would not let that hold me up getting a rifle and then getting a new BP from Knight.  Actually I might be able to make contact with Knight and find out when the new ones will be available. 

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Also, Is the tight bolt that big of an issue and could you please explain it to me in a little more detail.  I'm not sure I understand what you said about it.  How did you rectify it on yours?

It is a problem but it might not be in every rifle.  Check the rifle you might get and see if the bolt closes all the way down and lifts with moderate pressure.

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Apparently these things weren't all that big of a deal to you as you never mentioned them in your previous threads about the Ultra lite that you customized for yourself.  (Love those threads BTW)

Never really had these problem in the other lights that I have had or seen.  No that is not right the breech plug length has always been marginal to me, but Knight is so darn conservative they do not want the hammer contacting the top of the nipple and causing the nipple peen pre-maturely.  I really do not care! a nipple is $4.00 after a couple hundred rounds replacing the nipple is no big deal to me,

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I hate to pass on a great sounding Gun if these two issues are the only things I run into here with this gun.

I will suggest to you that the bolt problem might not be universal and the BP problem will be taken care - actually both problems Knight will fix... 

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It was a tough decision trying to decide between the Bighorn and Ultra.   Chose the Ultra for obvious quality improvement reasons  --  and how light it is.  I'm wondering about dropping back to the Bighorn now.   :bash:

Personally I would not do it... The ULite is a far more versatile rifle.

Quote
I would also be curious if you might have any recommendations on lighter bullet/ powder combinations you might have tried or think would be a good fit for this gun?  Or at least a good starting place for me.....assuming it has the proper BP in it and it functions correctly.  I have read a lot of your posts about the .503/4  460's.   I'm in Oregon and will hunt both Deer and Elk with it.   Wondered if a guy could get the recoil down a bit with a lighter conical that will still be sufficient for Elk and shoot good out of this gun?

Appreciate your time.  Thank's Kye



You like I are limited by our states to full bore lead conicals...

Bull Shop does make a 400 grain conical that he will size to .503



Buffalo Bullets makes a very good 385 grain conical - but the 400 grain Bull Shop is what I would do..
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Ruttn Bulls

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2014, 07:19:26 PM »
Bob33,

So am I reading that right about Knight shipping you  a new BP that they said they tested in the Ulite Barrel and it was still wrong?  Then the over night BP sent hasn't arrived?  Makes me wonder are they trying to customize one there for you or are the new ones that are the proper dimension supposed to be available.  Guess we'll find out when you get the one that is on it's way.  Craziness.

Offline whacker1

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2014, 12:30:34 PM »
If they had put a cap on the nipple and pulled the trigger, it would have saved me three lost weeks and a big black eye for Knight. Does that really require cleaning?

I totally agree... but you would not believe the mess one cap can make with the bore coat in the barrel. Of course the bore coat is non-corrosive.  Just out of curiosity have you ran a patch down the bore? You might be surprised yourself right now if you were to run a damp patch down the bore. It will come out looking something terrible - then add the carbon from a cap and it gets worse.  That is why the companies and almost everyone says to thoroughly clean a ML before shooting.  The preservatives that companies put to protect the new bore can sometimes be really thick.

These were the first patches out of my new TC Triumph when cleaning it.  TC was using some form of copper protection...



In reality - if the person assembling the rifle had looked at the closed bolt in the fired position you would see that it would not work - same for the pressure that was need to close the bolt.  So Knight is still on the hook for the assembly of a non-functional rifle.

In my case I did fire 3 caps then started cleaning the bore - I really wish I had taken pictures of those patches.  They were a deep dark black and it took 10 or so patches to start to see the end... But one thing for sure if that rifle had set in Sportsman's Warehouse for years the bore would have been protected.

I agree I would rather clean it myself after firing a cap or two vs dealing with some commercial cleaning method.  I would rather be sent an unfired muzzleloader.  I understand your predicament, but it is the nature of dealing with muzzleloaders.  I am sure there is a way they could have fired the bolt and pressure tested the bolt striking the nipple without firing a cap.  and measure tolerances between bolt face and nipple.

Frustrating for sure

Offline howlow

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2014, 07:22:59 PM »
I also just ran into this same problem and same answering machine message.  I screwed out breech plug and it fires now but I would hate in the field it changes or does not fire when it really needs to count!!!!

Offline howlow

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2014, 07:24:25 PM »
Also the pic of the knight light muzzle loader I was curious what peep sites they are   thanks

Offline Bob33

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2014, 07:42:26 PM »
Bob33,

So am I reading that right about Knight shipping you  a new BP that they said they tested in the Ulite Barrel and it was still wrong?  Then the over night BP sent hasn't arrived?  Makes me wonder are they trying to customize one there for you or are the new ones that are the proper dimension supposed to be available.  Guess we'll find out when you get the one that is on it's way.  Craziness.
Here's my update. I received a second breech plug from Knight about one week after I purchased the rifle. The message from Knight with it was "I tested a new breech plug in a Ultra-Lite barrel tested ok". It did not work in my Knight, so it was the second breech plug that would not work.

The"overnight" package sent on July 2 was really sent 2nd day air, so it didn't arrive until Monday July 7. It contained another (third) breech plug, and a new bolt. I tested the breech plug with my old bolt, and it worked. I tested it with the new bolt (the one that Knight said they had tested the third breech plug with), and it wouldn't fire. FYI, the three breech plugs were three different lengths: 1.323", 1.348", and 1.352".

I therefore now have a third breech plug that so far has worked with my first bolt. No other combination works.

I've only had one weekend to test the combination, and so far they have worked. My confidence in them continuing to work is low, particularly when parts are taken apart to clean and put back together.

For supposedly being one of the better muzzleloader rifle companies, I have concluded that Knight's quality assurance processes and customer service are extremely poor. I could never in good conscience recommend Knight muzzleloaders to a friend, and in fact would advise them against it until Knight gets their act together.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Mfowl

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2014, 07:58:42 PM »
Sorry to hear about your continued troubles with this gun! Must be a headache! I hope everything turns out well in the end and your bull makes you forget about all this!
Fish hard, hunt harder!

Offline Bob33

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Re: Knight and Sportsmens Warehouse - poor quality, poor customer service
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2014, 08:09:03 PM »
Sorry to hear about your continued troubles with this gun! Must be a headache! I hope everything turns out well in the end and your bull makes you forget about all this!
I hope so too. I'm looking for a second backup rifle to take since my confidence in Knight is low.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

 


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