Cold calling for elk??

[lamrith]

Here is my rookie attempt..

Set-up to make the most use of the one pinch point I see.  Shooter upwind at pinch on backside of the trees.  Depending on bulls entrance it should provide at most a 50yrd shot and bulls attention past him on the caller.  Caller and maybe a decoy if possible set @ C and D respectively.  Hoping the shooter can also call, he starts by sending out a few cow/calf calls, turning to make them sound trailing away toward the caller.  Caller then can follow later with more calls.   Keeping caller high in area so lead the bull close to shooter rather than chance the bull going thru the entrance trees toward a deeper set calling layout.

[Shawn Ryan]

I have my shooter up close to where the bull is expected and in front of the trees/brush so he has no obstructions and my caller in a more concealed area where he can better move, if necessary.  Either way, I want my shooter further into the wind or off to the side. I might expect the bull to come from the upper right, but I also expect him to want to gain wind advantage on the caller, so maybe he comes in from the upper left, given the wind direction.

[WapitiTalk1]

I have my shooter up close to where the bull is expected and in front of the trees/brush so he has no obstructions and my caller in a more concealed area where he can better move, if necessary.  Either way, I want my shooter further into the wind or off to the side. I might expect the bull to come from the upper right, but I also expect him to want to gain wind advantage on the caller, so maybe he comes in from the upper left, given the wind direction.

Yes sir, here ya go guys!  Try to set up so you will have the wind in your favor and big stinky at a disadvantage (hoping he's hot enough or curious enough to throw caution to the wind, so to speak, and just come in to your sounds) but be prepared for the elk to work quietly, and sometimes quickly, to a spot where he has your wind.  This occurs many times during these setups, particularly as you get deeper into the season.  What SR mentioned about setting the shooter up "in front" of cover is key... Camo blended against a good backdrop is money.  If you're a shooter behind something, you're probably not in the best location for many reasons.  The caller should also be in a position to blend in with his/her surroundings... after all, that's what the elk is coming in for/after, yes?.  If you're upstairs in your bedroom and somebody drops a glass on your kitchen floor, you know where the sound came from.  Amplify that meager understanding of a human's surroundings X 10 and you have Mr. or Mrs. Elk.  They know their terroritory intimately.  The other setups aren't bad at all, you cats are tuned in, but again, ensure you use cover/concealment "behind" you to your advantage.  Never hunker down behind a tree, HB bush, blowdown,  etc., or it may result in an unfavorable outcome.  I do like Lamrith's introduction of a decoy into the mix.  What kind of decoy are you thinking of packing with you sir?   

Now, on to the next phase of this topic (thanks for getting it rolling Tbob). How does, and when does, the shooter become the caller?  Please provide a scenario when the shooter realizes that he/she "now" needs to become the caller and possibly stop old bullwinkle in his tracks with a nervous/popping grunt to seal the deal for the original caller?  Team effort, right   

[lamrith]

Phase 1b.
Maybe a Montana Miss September Feeding Cow Elk Decoy.  Thinking there is that qtr away head down feeding is a relaxed posture, for a visual, "all is well, you like what you see?"

Phase 2.
Assume both parties are in front of cover with good backdrop.
So Mr Stinky is all fired up and blows right past the original shooter, who is as he had no chance to draw and was so close he could have stuck an arrow in him by hand..
Couple paths here with different needs.  Pink is original shooter is shot taker.  Black is no-mans land (crossfire).  Blue is caller is hunter and original shooter is support.  Green free for all, caller stays primary unless bull busts straight down.

• GREEN: If he cuts down immediately (improbable because he would try to keep wind to his advantage?) then the original caller will need to bring him back on course.  If the bull continues down, both will have to call and see who gets lucky.  Teamwork and knowing each other will be crucial to weave a storyline for mr stinky.  Shooter would call once stinky reaches the blue line area.
• BLUE: Hopefully he continues on top path.  Either path he takes after that then the grunt would be about at the X or just before.  Deep in callers comfortable shot range, 50yrd MAX?  We are all hunting bow right?...  Hopefully the bull will at worst stop and look back, at best maybe turn and provide a broadside to qtr away so caller can draw while the bull is distracted and thread the needle.

[hntrspud]

Tagging, this is amazing.    

[Bean Counter]

 

[elk247]

Phantom16 I really enjoy the conversation you create. 

[WapitiTalk1]

Thanks elk247.  Only a handfull of weeks left till we're all out there, and make no mistake, the bug has hit me as much as my Hunt WA brothers/sisters  .  Lamrith, I'm with you brother and like your thinking on your last post.  I'm not familiar with the decoy you mentioned?  Is it something realtively easy to pack (more than conveniently collapsible) and pack with you as you move through the elk woods between setups?  Is there perhaps something better a guy could use when running/gunning using cold calling setups?  Just asking as I know what I have in my elk tool bag for this fall.

OK, moving on.  How does/do a team/partners decide "when" it's time to quit a cold calling setup?  In many situations, I will not in all likelihood have a visual on my shooter when I'm calling.  Sooooo, how do you think the elk sound exchange between the two hunters may go to confirm/deny that it's now time to pull stakes and move on? 

[elk247]

Keep it natural. Do an odd cadence that is easily recognizable by the hunters but not too alarming to elk. Cow call, chuckle 3 times followed by cow call again (for example) Caller regroups slowly with the shooter and you move to the next finger or funnel. I probably sit at a cold call setup too long because I tend to ease into the calling. I cow call first to try and draw some talk or lurking bulls close by. Then I locate bugle with a less intimidating diaphragm  (think satellite bull) cow talk with my partner to create "herd talk" to convince any bulls that might still be unsure. That's about my entire cold calling sequence. After that its time to move on. Maybe 25 minutes start to finish. This is usually during later morning, early afternoon because early morning is all locate bugles and spot and stalking. Late afternoon is pinch points and catching animals moving on there own to feed and water. If you get a response at any point then its time to use your judgment as to how or even if to respond. Getting a bull absolutely pissed off ripping saplings out of the ground is as much a thrill as punching a tag in my book. As always more important than calling are the thermals. Keep those in your favor and expect the bulls to try to get downwind of you. Try to make your setups so they can't circle you. Sometimes two shooters per caller are better than one. Also I've had many a bull hang up in my day so we try to separate the shooter and caller by  about 75 yards.

[lamrith]

Thanks elk247.  Only a handfull of weeks left till we're all out there, and make no mistake, the bug has hit me as much as my Hunt WA brothers/sisters  .  Lamrith, I'm with you brother and like your thinking on your last post.  I'm not familiar with the decoy you mentioned?  Is it something realtively easy to pack (more than conveniently collapsible) and pack with you as you move through the elk woods between setups?  Is there perhaps something better a guy could use when running/gunning using cold calling setups?  Just asking as I know what I have in my elk tool bag for this fall.

OK, moving on.  How does/do a team/partners decide "when" it's time to quit a cold calling setup?  In many situations, I will not in all likelihood have a visual on my shooter when I'm calling.  Sooooo, how do you think the elk sound exchange between the two hunters may go to confirm/deny that it's now time to pull stakes and move on?

The decoy mentioned is one of the fabric ones with flexible rods on the outside.  Twist and tuck and it folds up, there is a fold up video on the cabelas site: Montana Miss September Feeding Cow Elk Decoy
They do cost some weight, but are pretty thin in storage format.  Nate Simmons is a bigtime High country extreme solo bow hunter just used one on last episode to call in a nice bull, and keep it's attention.  If he was willing to pack the weight on a deep back-country hunt that really says allot about the utility of having one along.

I think I know what one you are talking about and it looks very interesting for sure.  http://www.poisonarrowgear.com  I debated that for this scenario, but the concern would be if the shooter had that up from the start then the bull would get fixated and Hang.  May not be able to be brought all the way into the ambush point and likely never get to the caller as a backup shooting option.  I would rather suck him all the way in and get him between the two people, if he does not totally bust them but spooks, some cow calls might give him pause with one of the pair in position to take a shot still unless he busts straight down and out low left.  It would be usefull for both parties to have them though.  Maybe the caller have his deployed from the start as further bait.  The Shooter if time allowed could deploy his before he makes his stop grunt which will give the bull something to look at.

As for time to move on..  Hard to say, I have heard of guys using other calls like crow, so as not to foul up any elk talk that is already out there, but that again is more to pack along.  The real key is having the plan and communication program set-up before you separate.  Scouting makes a good time to practice these comms skills if the pair scouts together as well.

[elkmtngear]

There is another option.  The SLIP System provides the full size decoy, with an umbrella-type frame that is more effective in windy conditions, and allows the user to move ahead and quickly stake the unit into the ground.  Stretchable Slipcovers allow the hunter to change the presentation (for example camo, elk butt, elk profile) according to his needs, so it can be used for hunting multiple game species.

This unit also will provide shelter in a storm, and folds up into a very durable trekking pole.  If walking with the unit, it can be deployed nearly instantly.

Here is a demo I created specifically for elk hunting:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP4hElifR9E

We are HWF Sponsors, and discount coupons are available if you send me a PM.

[elk247]

This could be very effective set up behind the caller. That would still be about 75 yards behind the shooter so if a bull hangs up 100 yards from the caller like they sometimes do the shooter will have a 25 yard slam dunk shot. In a perfect world.  Smossy you should bring one to elk camp so we can give it a try.

[WapitiTalk1]

Yes sir, there's my primary decoy.  Thanks for chiming in Jeff (and very informative VID by the way)... I love that movie    I have the EMG camo slip for wallow, edge of clearcut, trail intersection sitting, and, the seductive cow butt slip for run and gun/cold calling setups.  Lamrith, I also have the Poison Arrow decoy cow face in my quiver.  There's a time and place for both of these elk hunting multipliers. 

[WapitiTalk1]

OK, moving on.  How does/do a team/partners decide "when" it's time to quit a cold calling setup?  In many situations, I will not in all likelihood have a visual on my shooter when I'm calling.  Sooooo, how do you think the elk sound exchange between the two hunters may go to confirm/deny that it's now time to pull stakes and move on?

Lamrith quote:  "As for time to move on..  Hard to say, I have heard of guys using other calls like crow, so as not to foul up any elk talk that is already out there, but that again is more to pack along.  The real key is having the plan and communication program set-up before you separate.  Scouting makes a good time to practice these comms skills if the pair scouts together as well."

Yes sir, it's very important for caller/shooter to be practiced on how to communicate without being in line of sight of each other (and certainly, both of them relatively proficient with their calling).  Here's a typical partner situation where both are on the same sheet.  This is after you've been at your cold call location for what you feel is long enough (20 minutes up to an hour) and have completed several calling sequences with no luck; as the primary caller, you feel nobody is home and call to your partner to see if they are ready to move on.  Caller gives three short cow sounds (mew, mew, mew); obviously, this is not done in conjunction with the normal rhythm of your cold calls to avoid confusion.  Partner responds with (mew, mew, mew)... yep, partner agrees that nobody wants to play and it's time to move on.  Move towards each other and off you go.  Now, what happens if the shooter does not respond?  This signals the caller that their may be elk afoot that he hasn't seen/heard and it's time to continue this setup with some additional calling.  Differerent hunters have their methods for communicating when it's time to move on, that's just the way I normally do it.  I'd be interested to hear how other hunters work the "hey, are you ready to move" action.