Auto Repair Service; Question on pricing; Request for referrals

[Fl0und3rz]

I use a popular import car repair shop to service our cars/trucks, when I cannot due to complexity, regulations, time.  It is not a dealership.

I have been pretty dissatisfied with some of their practices of recommending/replacing parts that are not necessary (while we're in there type stuff), their insane (IMO) markup on parts and fluids, and their seeming readiness to skirt the ethics of repair/replacement in the face of their customers' ignorance (not mine - based on observations with wife and overhearing interactions with other customers).

First off, I get it.  It's a business whose purpose is to make money.  And I don't even mind paying a premium for expert diagnostic and service done right the first time, which is not at issue here. That aside, here are some things I am wondering about:

1.) How do such shops procure parts?  Do they pay retail (I don't think so), or do they pay wholesale?  What is a typical percentage difference from wholesale and what you would pay for the same part at a parts store (not dealer parts)? Do such chain shops typically have a warehouse that they store the parts in climate-controlled conditions, resting on gold-plated shelves, bathed in 24-hour soothing music?

2.) Is it typical practice to recommend/replace parts that are not defective solely for the reason that you are already in the system and there would be no added labor costs?  Think idler pulley.

3.) What are reasonable parts mark up rates on shop provided parts? 20/50/100/150/200/300%? I tend to think 20% over retail is excessive, but I have no basis for comparison other than retail.

Here are some data points.
Part/Shop Quote/Retail/Percentage of Retail
New AC Compressor/$650/$470/138%
AC Dryer/$114/$27/422%
AC idler pulley/$76/$38/200%
Ujoint/$95/$33/288%

And the retail prices above are not for the bottom of the barrel parts (think Dana/Spicer ujoint; think retail for new parts pricing).

4.) Do you have any recommendations for reasonable and honest repair shops in S. King or N. Pierce counties?

5.) What is a fair labor hourly rate to expect for a job well done?  I am not looking to starve anybody, here.  But I don't want to have to walk away from the shop all funny either.


Thanks.

[b23]

Maybe try and find one of the mechanics from a shop you've had good work done by and see if any of them do side work.  Naturally you probably won't get the same warranty you would/will with a big shop but usually their hourly rate is considerably less.

I've been lucky, one of my best buddies from high school is a cert. mechanic and he has saved me and my family a lot of $$$$$ over the last 28yrs.

I wouldn't have a clue where to go on the wet side of the Mtns. but maybe there I someone on this site that owns a shop or can help you find someone.

Best of luck to you though.

[coachcw]

I can tell you that guys that have mechanics that do side work often get a sloppy rushed job , most mechanics don't understand the business side of things and by the time there done with there week they are looking to get yours done as fast as possible. I own a shop in north Seattle and can tell you the over head in this business is crazy . I go by flat rate manuals and will often give a discount on multiple jobs at the same time like front end or service work . it saves the costumer time and money and saves me the time to create another visit and paper work process. it drives me nuts to see shops double dipping on labor and gives mechanic a bad rap. I also recommend a shop that knows your type of vehicle , often you will pay 2-3 times more labor for a guy to diagnose and repair your car while  he learns . I see this all the time with drivability problems and electrical. as far as parts on factory parts I charge suggested list price that way when ever you get checked on price your not a bad guy, I see dealerships and production shops charge 10% or more over list price and I just don't get it(list should be list on factory parts)and I have seen dealerships change the list prices to different shops this is BS. on parts from the aftermarket most reputable shops will use a matrix scale and most data systems have it built in . the lower cost parts have a higher mark up and the more the part costs the scale slides down for instance if I buy a part for $5.00 wholesale it will list for $10.00 if I buy a part for $2000.00 it will list for $2400.00. of course older folks and students or people down on there luck often get a break because I'm still human. always try to get the best parts you can for the money and don't get to hung up on the bottom line say if a shop charges $100 per hour and does good work charges you and hour and the hack down the street charges you 70 per hour and bills you for two hours witch is the better deal ?    I don't know to many guys in your neck of the woods but I suggest that you give Seattle automotive Dist a call and ask for ted or paul . they can give you a recommendation for a good shop in your area.1 (800)932-3500 will get you to there warehouse. good luck.

[whacker1]

I can tell you that guys that have mechanics that do side work often get a sloppy rushed job , most mechanics don't understand the business side of things and by the time there done with there week they are looking to get yours done as fast as possible. I own a shop in north Seattle and can tell you the over head in this business is crazy . I go by flat rate manuals and will often give a discount on multiple jobs at the same time like front end or service work . it saves the costumer time and money and saves me the time to create another visit and paper work process. it drives me nuts to see shops double dipping on labor and gives mechanic a bad rap. I also recommend a shop that knows your type of vehicle , often you will pay 2-3 times more labor for a guy to diagnose and repair your car while  he learns . I see this all the time with drivability problems and electrical. as far as parts on factory parts I charge suggested list price that way when ever you get checked on price your not a bad guy, I see dealerships and production shops charge 10% or more over list price and I just don't get it(list should be list on factory parts)and I have seen dealerships change the list prices to different shops this is BS. on parts from the aftermarket most reputable shops will use a matrix scale and most data systems have it built in . the lower cost parts have a higher mark up and the more the part costs the scale slides down for instance if I buy a part for $5.00 wholesale it will list for $10.00 if I buy a part for $2000.00 it will list for $2400.00. of course older folks and students or people down on there luck often get a break because I'm still human. always try to get the best parts you can for the money and don't get to hung up on the bottom line say if a shop charges $100 per hour and does good work charges you and hour and the hack down the street charges you 70 per hour and bills you for two hours witch is the better deal ?    I don't know to many guys in your neck of the woods but I suggest that you give Seattle automotive Dist a call and ask for ted or paul . they can give you a recommendation for a good shop in your area.1 (800)932-3500 will get you to there warehouse. good luck.

Yes, many people don't understand the cost of doing business and where all the overhead comes from
- Insurance
- Rent
- health insurance
- payroll
- payroll taxes
- heat/Power
- water/sewer
- garbage
- oil/grease disposal
- taxes
- equipment updating/maintenance costs
- training

These are just a tip of the ice berg when it comes to operational costs, but I couldn't say it any better than coach.  Finding a mechanic/or shop that you trust is a method of trial and error.  I found two in spokane that worked for a large franchise shop.  When the owner closed the franchise, they bought the equipment and leased a space a mile a way and opened their own shop.  We have an ongoing relationship and they take very good care of me, but they also know that they get all my work unless i break down out of town.

[scottcrb]

Hey coach I live in N Seattle mind telling me the name/location  of your shop? Pm if you'd like.

[rtspring]

Take it to Coach!  He runs a tight ship and is fair as they come, he will tell you what you need to hear.  Not all the BS, plus you get to see horn porn while your car is being worked on... 

[Fl0und3rz]

Thanks, Coach.  Your info on parts markup jives somewhat with what I have seen from this shop as far as lower cost parts having higher markup.  And as before, I understand about tension between covering costs of doing business and the desire to obtain the lowest cost highest quality service.  I see it in my business all the time. 

It just irks me that the shop in the OP seems to charge these markup rates over cost of RETAIL aftermarket parts, not WHOLESALE, and I suspect the guy is not being upfront about them paying retail for these parts.  I don't mind paying a reasonable rate for quality service and parts, but I don't like being lied to cover the fact that you may be charging excessive markup to cover your non-market-competive overhead.

N Seattle is a bit far for me, but it might work for the wife who works in Seattle.  Please do list the name of your shop or PM me and Scott the information if you don't want to list it here.

I received a recommendation for Greg's Auto in Tacoma (253.535.5035).  Anyone have any thing pro or con to say about their experiences with them?

As another aside, if you have a Subaru that needs work, there is a guy 'roundabout Colville, who goes by the name Subaru Guru.  We had him do head gaskets for less than half the cost of what the shop in the OP quoted.  I would take the wife's car back in a heartbeat, and the FIL uses him all the time.  I don't have any contact info for him, but I could probably get it if anyone is interested.

[coachcw]

My shop Is called Automotive Inc.  931 N . 96th Seattle 98103 (206)522-6100 Corey . With this raffle tag you may not see me many Mondays and Fridays , but I should be working late into the night every other day. Feel free to give me a call , if you guys have any questions or need referral's in the north end . often it's better to know who not to go to .

[Woodchuck]

Coach, how far is your shop from Kenmore?

[coachcw]

8 miles. I live in Bothell and drive through Kenmore every day .

[Woodchuck]

OK cool, I will be sending you a customer. My sister lives in Kenmore and needs a good shop. I assume you do regular service work as well?

[coachcw]

sure I will take care of her ..ty

[Woodchuck]

 

[jackelope]

I can't add anything that Coach didn't already say except for the part about adding other parts because you're already there. I'd use the timing belt job as a good example. While you're in there replacing the timing belt, let's replace the tensioner and the idler and the cam seals for example. My reasoning for this is as follows...if you're already in there doing all the labor, why wouldn't you spend a few more bucks on those parts while it's apart? 6 months from now if that tensioner breaks, throws the timing belt, valves smack pistons and ruins your engine, you're an owner. If the cam seals start leaking oil, you do all the labor again to fix it 6 months from now...There is no warranty on anything. Why not have that added insurance?
Disclaimer...I'm at a domestic shop and do very few timing belt jobs so my example may not be totally accurate, but you get the idea.

[Woodchuck]

 
That is exactly how I sell timing belt jobs.