I hate to open this can again but.....

[MtnMuley]

Is using scents ,non scents, also considered baiting?

It is for bears in Washington.

Yes, it is "non scents".

That makes no sense.

Nonsense.

 

[PolarBear]

Stalker.
I disagree.  One of the biologists that I have debated this issue with, i have peronally known and fished with for over 20 years. He works with several Western states mainly with large predator issues but has a huge interest in all big game.  The other  biologist I have known for 10 years. These are not simply "talking points" they are real concerns. I tend to belive what real, working biologist have to say over someone on the internet who makes unfounded assumptions

[Stalker]

Stalker.
I disagree.  One of the biologists that I have debated this issue with, i have peronally known and fished with for over 20 years. He works with several Western states mainly with large predator issues but has a huge interest in all big game.  The other  biologist I have known for 10 years. These are not simply "talking points" they are real concerns. I tend to belive what real, working biologist have to say over someone on the internet who makes unfounded assumptions

Pardon my unfounded assumptions but if these gentlemen have a true concern then my next question would be how could a department of professional biologists and their superiors be so derelict in their duties as to allow such deep concerns to go unaddressed for such a long period. Am I saying that a complete task force should have been manned up a thrown at the problem while other areas are neglected, no. But surely a small amount of time, effort and funding could have been put towards this. At least if some semblance of effort were put into researching this issue then such a proposal would be so much easier to sell to your customers...........     

[zike]

The baiting ban should reduce the harvest, when all you whiners quit hunting in the state. Maybe wdfw decided they didn't need a study, because 38 other states already have a full or partail ban on baiting. And its been debated and studied to death.

[PolarBear]

Stalker
Priorities and budget.  Up until recently baiting has been on the back burner.  10 years ago where was not much of it going on and there were far more important issues to deal with.  Within the past few years the use of baiting has skyrocketed, therefore creating more of a concern.  Issues such as Wolves have taken center stage as far as priorities.  The whole issue of baiting (as Zike stated) has been debated and studied to death. 

[Jonathan_S]

Okay but a lot of states have seasons until January, bans on bottle-necked cartridges, limits of 6 deer a year, and herds of much more prolific nature, also less escape opportunities.

The biggest cities tend to ban handguns too.  Good enough for us too then eh?  I don't even bait...

The baiting ban should reduce the harvest, when all you whiners quit hunting in the state. Maybe wdfw decided they didn't need a study, because 38 other states already have a full or partail ban on baiting. And its been debated and studied to death.

By the way, thanks for insulting people. 

[coyotestalker22250]

What some of us don't understand is baiting, whether you agree with it or not is a part of hunting. It has been a tradition and/or necessity since the caveman days. If we agree to take it away (witch Seattle has already done) it's just the beginning of hunting rights to be taken away. I have hunted bears over bait in Canada and it was a awesome experience. I have never seen so many bears in my life.  The only way this is going to change is if we all stand TOGETHER, whether you agree or not we're all in this together and we need each other for support!

[Jonathan_S]

whether you agree or not we're all in this together and we need each other for support!

Nobody who supports the ban on baiting will address this.  It's been posted many times in this thread and others but they stay away from it. 

[MtnMuley]

Stalker:
"Pardon my unfounded assumptions but if these gentlemen have a true concern then my next question would be how could a department of professional biologists and their superiors be so derelict in their duties as to allow such deep concerns to go unaddressed for such a long period."

You have no clue how mismanaged and neglected our ungulate herd here in Okanogan County is. If those of you thinking that the biologists have a true idea of the mule deer herd in this region, you're very mistaken. At one point in a recent meeting, the area WDFW bio's stated that there were about 35,000 mule deer in the western part of Okanogan county, of which 15,000 would be affected by the recent Carlton Complex wildfire. This number was questioned right off the bat, and after both bio's looked at one another they said it's probably closer to 8,000. I was stunned. How could you change from 15,000 to 8,000 within a minute after being questioned? The doe permits they issued were based of a percentage of the 15,000 number! How could you explain that? I was completely dumbfounded to hear that in front of a public audience. This is just one example of why ZERO local hunters I know trust or respect them one bit when it comes our local herd health. We need a change here in a big way as far as bio's go.  The bio's here spend so little time in the field studying the ungulate herd that I've never personally seen one in the field ever. I see each of the local 4 or 5 wardens several times each year. This a huge problem here. These guys basically set our seasons based off of what they think, yet when questioned face to face, rarely provide any knowledge of the subject on hand. Why do think there's several comments of multiple posts each year slamming the bio's up here? It's a serious issue here, that's not improving. For those to think they should have legitimate stances on the ungulate populations here because they are the bio's,  you're dead wrong. It's disgusting, sad, and ridiculous,  yet very true.

[tgomez]

About time to start an open season on all these liberals! That's Im moving to Alaska, who's with me! No but seriously I've never baited b4, but don't see a problem with it.

[Stalker]

MTNM, Thank you for above post. I have read all of these posts and I appreciate your position on this matter as you seem very well informed and level headed to this matter. I further appreciate your thoughts on having this matter evaluated and identifying specific areas that would benefit from a ban and which areas could continue to sustain such practices. Much more reasonable than the knee jerk across the board ban that we seem to be headed toward.

PB, Appreciate your response to my last post and I have already sent an email to DFW requesting any study data that they have done in this state and their findings on the impact to herds by region.

As I stated in my earlier post I have not hunted over bait and do not see it in my immediate future. My position, like others on here, is driven by DFWs apparent policy that we will just remove any tactic that may be controversial without any real discussion or exchange with we the hunters who pay the bill. Do I think they need to dialogue with us on every topic, no as their job would never get done. However on something like this that has been going on for decades with no observable harm to the herds by the average hunter then yes I do believe they should roll out the information wagon and lay all of their findings out for us to digest.  We still may not like their end decision but at least we will be well informed about why we are disgruntled.

So I do not see my posts or others as whining just discussions, kind of what I thought forms were meant to encourage.

[DeerHarvester]

Stalker:
"Pardon my unfounded assumptions but if these gentlemen have a true concern then my next question would be how could a department of professional biologists and their superiors be so derelict in their duties as to allow such deep concerns to go unaddressed for such a long period."

You have no clue how mismanaged and neglected our ungulate herd here in Okanogan County is. If those of you thinking that the biologists have a true idea of the mule deer herd in this region, you're very mistaken. At one point in a recent meeting, the area WDFW bio's stated that there were about 35,000 mule deer in the western part of Okanogan county, of which 15,000 would be affected by the recent Carlton Complex wildfire. This number was questioned right off the bat, and after both bio's looked at one another they said it's probably closer to 8,000. I was stunned. How could you change from 15,000 to 8,000 within a minute after being questioned? The doe permits they issued were based of a percentage of the 15,000 number! How could you explain that? I was completely dumbfounded to hear that in front of a public audience. This is just one example of why ZERO local hunters I know trust or respect them one bit when it comes our local herd health. We need a change here in a big way as far as bio's go.  The bio's here spend so little time in the field studying the ungulate herd that I've never personally seen one in the field ever. I see each of the local 4 or 5 wardens several times each year. This a huge problem here. These guys basically set our seasons based off of what they think, yet when questioned face to face, rarely provide any knowledge of the subject on hand. Why do think there's several comments of multiple posts each year slamming the bio's up here? It's a serious issue here, that's not improving. For those to think they should have legitimate stances on the ungulate populations here because they are the bio's,  you're dead wrong. It's disgusting, sad, and ridiculous,  yet very true.

So true.

[RadSav]

If we can just reduce the deer harvests 25% the wolves will have more food for winter!  Since most of the baiting occurs in wolf habitat I can't help but wonder if that is a driving factor   Well that and the influence the Sierra Club is having within the DFW.

I have hunted deer over bait twice;  Once in Washington and once in Texas.  Never killed a deer on any of those hunts.  Most exciting part of it was watching the turkeys attack the deer for dibs on the fresh bait - that was sort of cool.  So baiting will not effect my hunting or my style of hunting in any way.  But, I sure hate the idea of hunters losing rights to hunt as they wish.  And this state has so few outfitters I have a hard time believing they have much effect on herds as a whole.  As with most things in politics, I think there are much more important things to address than these minor issues that lead to loss of personal freedoms.

[drk9988]

How many of you guys that are against losing more of our hunting techniques actually participated in the public input sections of this process.. The data that was presented to the commission showed that something like 60% of the hunter were against it. I guess why I bring this up is because I think there is one more public comment period and if you don't want this to go away you have to speak up.. Comment.. Vote.. Send emails... All these comments in support should be sent directly to the man in charge and the commission.

[MtnMuley]

I think there are much more important things to address than these minor issues that lead to loss of personal freedoms.

It's obviously not as important to you as it is me. When I watch something that is very important to me get abused thus creating negative affects on the herd as a whole, it becomes my number one concern. I don't feel you're seeing true problem here, but merely standing up for the majority in your shoes.