Makah's do it again!!!

[Hermit]

Really. My dad left before I turned 1. I don't remember him at all. They {the government} removed him from the res. when he was 3 and gave him to a white couple to raise. He was around 19 when he returned. Probably why I can't drink. But I can feel "the blood" when I'm way up in the boonies, all alone, listening to the wind.

[fish-on37]

I am a member of KBH archery (Kitsap Bow Hunters) and we get newsletters all the time. I have recently got a letter saying that the indians are pushing towards a new bill that says something along the lines of them owning 50% of all the game, there for should be allowed to access all land that has the game on it for harvesting. Now to me, that means all the special draw areas like the Margaret and loowit. Has anyone else heard of this "bill"

[Bofire]

Five criminals killed a whale, the tribe did nothing.
Are you a dope dealer because some American sold dope?
Carl

[WDFW-SUX]

Bofire...............SHUT THE *censored* UP.

[boneaddict]

My blood pressure can't stand this.....can someone else issue a good ole keyboard ass whoopin....I think MTBIRD has resurfaced.

[ICEMAN]

Bofire...............SHUT THE *censored* UP.

Agree.

[Ray]

My blood pressure can't stand this.....

Are you a dope dealer because some American sold dope?

To me that is a poor example of the issue at hand. But if we want to talk about it in such simple terms the answer to your question is no. Americans tend to actually try to regulate themselves with laws, ethics and penalties. Usually the only ones that get by are overly rich or politicians. Some indians (not all) often stand behind outdated treaties and speak words with meanings that they have long forgotten in order to make smoke screens for the public eye. They have talked about how acts like these are traditions of their people's past and cleverly inject statements about having empty freezers as if they are a starving community who had no choice because of the bad white man who came and made them this way. It truly is a joke when they use the tradition argument in order to get special hunting priveleges for animals that some of their tribes never traditionally hunted to begin with. For this incident these guys are even casually ingoring their own laws and any binding treaties which their own people have agreed to. The treaties have often been used as a tool. Throwing it in our faces as a callous reminder about times long past and experiences which the current generations have never lived through. Simply put... it is a guilt trip. You are either guilty of being white or guilty of being non-indian and living on the soil here. Now let's keep in mind that many indians didn't believe in physical ownership of land and animals. This guilt trip strategy works time and time again for them so they keep doing it..  As far as killing the whale... I think that there was someone who talked about the last time they shot a whale mentioning that a large portion of the carcass was left to rot in waste. I'd hardly call that the same indian portrayed on television and in people's minds who are all about respecting mother earth and all of her creatures.

To me the incident was purely a stunt. A few Indians had this .50 cal and a lot of time on their hands to calculate and plan this event. They ignored their own laws simply because they would not be upheld... and they know it. Justice in their society for this act is merely a slap on the hand. Ask yourself: Is a slap on the wrist a just penalty for knowingly killing an endangered whale in a premeditated manner? When people come to age as an adult... most societies don't plan on handing out romper-room like penalties for felonies. The outrage is centered in this area for me and everything here is why I think that your example is a gross oversimplification missing the key points.. I am glad that there was some action in our courts by filing an indictment the other day against the people who felt compelled to follow through on this foolhardy and irresponsible stunt. When I read the article on monday about how other members of the tribe being interviewed by the press felt about it... I definitely had a better picture about how their society views this and that they don't seem to have any intention of doing anything about it within their own ranks period. They even used some casual language which mocked the court systems as if they were under complete immunity from any regulation and penalty of law regarding this incident. They might as well be flipping us off.  If you have some perception which is quite different please enlighten me as to the facts and point of view. Otherwise I tend to view this and the tribe as grossly irresponsible and incapable or otherwise unwilling to regulate their own when it comes to these sort of acts.

In light of this and overall it is hard for me to even give them an iota of credibility and recognition if they are unwilling to regulate their own. That goes that way for any group, race or organization in my world. So if the question was about them: yes, they are dope dealers or just as bad; harboring, condoning dope dealers.

[Bofire]

  Not a chance of shutting me up, since I live in Yelm, and my address is in my profile, feel free to tell me where to meet and you can tell me in person.
Carl

[ICEMAN]

Touche'

So the tribe did nothing.....?

That is the whole point here. They do nothing. They do nothing about the criminals in their midst... Did they step up and arrest their fellow tribal members?

[Bofire]

I have no beef with you, Iceman, or Passion. I understand your anger and trust me I have said the same things, in anger, before. Remember the Oak Creek elk kills, the Packwood Kills, the netting in the rivers. It aint right or fair.
Our courts gave it to them, Americas courts.

That however has nothing to do with what Passion, and you seconded, said to me. I am an American, 56 years, most of it in Washington state, I have earned my right to free speech and am willing to fight for it. The media uses the "broad brush" approach, there are bad apples in every barrel, get rid of them. These Makah criminals, I hope, are punished severely. The same hope I have for criminals everywhere.
Carl

[arrowflinger]

I agree...........very touchy. But if I remember right..........didn't god create the animals?

[Bofire]

Does anyone know how this works? I am pretty sure investigation of major crimes on reservations are conducted by Feds. Like Murders/Kidnapping. I think I saw that the charges were filed by a federal prosecuter, is the violation a Federal crime or an Indian Tribe crime? Whose rules are used? Where would they "do the time' or pay the fine"? What court do they go to?
Thanks
Carl

[Shadow Cat]

Crimes committed on tribal land are first investigated by tribal police and over seen and "reviewed" by federal agencies, mainly the US Department of the Interior. Crimes that require prison time committed on tribal land are usually are sentenced to federal prisons. (Have you ever seen a prison on a reservation?)
The DOI manages the trust account and makes the payments to individuals and to the tribe. This is a pet peeve of mine. A judge makes a ruling against the US, our taxes go up, and the DOI gets to pay them...  A few years ago, DOI got into hot water over some money that came up missing. A federal court judge was mad about it and took away DOI's (and the departments under DOI such as US Fish & Wildlife) internet connection to get peoples attention. ) See Cobil V. Norton:  ( http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/dc/035262a.pdf ) "This isn't about ego, it's about making the government accountable," Cobell said. "Indian people simply don't know what they own - nobody has ever held the U.S. government accountable."
Cobell is lead plaintiff in the largest lawsuit ever filed by American Indians against the federal government.
And so far, she's won the first round of a two-part case, which has resulted in an overhaul of the government'saccounting system that has for 113 years mismanaged billions of dollars in land assets belonging to roughly 500,000 Indians and their heirs.
Now, she and all of the Indian nations are waiting for the trial to begin in which they hope to recover more than $10 billion in land, gas, oil, water and timber leases they believe are theirs and were denied them because of poor accounting practices, and is some case, no accounting.

Since this took place off of tribal lands and out side of their nautical boarders, it falls into federal jurisdiction and involves NOAA as they are responsible for endangered whales.
As far as I am concerned, The treaties need to be done away with and the indians need to become a part of society. I have native blood in me and I lived in Tuba City on the Navajo Indian reservation in Arizona when I worked for the Indian Health Services. I saw a lot of things that did not set to well with me.

[bearhunter59]

ONE NATION!   ONE RULE!!!!
One set of rules for all of us.
You can't have a separate "Nation" within a Nation....it just doesn't work.

And what about our natural rights to hunt and fish like our forefathers did when they first came to this continent?  It's not like they had a lot of pigs, cows, or chickens, or vegatables just growing all over the place, to eat when they first arrived...they lived off the land just as the Indians did. (I refuse to call them "Natives" since they are no more "native" to this continent than we are.)

"Regulating" their hunting and fishing rights such as our hunting and fishing rights are "regulated" is only fair.  Even if they have this right???, why don't they have to buy licenses and register just like all of us?  Not so much to prevent them from hunting or fishing, as much as to be able to "verify" which of them are legally allowed to hunt/fish under Indian privledges.  I mean let's face it, when these treaties were signed, almost 100% of the Indians were Indian.  Now, probably less than 5% of them have more than 1/32nd of Indian blood in them, which means there has been more non-Indian blood introduced into their bloodline over the last 150 years, than Indian blood.  Yet, these same "Indians" will stand-up and spout "It's our heritage and traditions!!!"  BULL POOP!!!!

....I gotta stop...I get so riled-up when I get on this Indians and their treaty BS.......

ONE NATION!  ONE RULE!!!

PS...Just a thought.....IF Indians are their own NATION, doesn't that make them NOT US CITIZENS, therefore not entitled to protection under the Constitution?  Can't have it both ways....Either your a Citizen and have to follow the same laws as the rest of the citizens, or your not, and therefore not entitled to the protections of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

ONE NATION!  ONE RULE!!!

[Shadow Cat]

I agree, but try to find an attorney that will back you....