Polarized wolf groups battle with billboards

[idahohuntr]

You say wdfw isn't transparent enough on wolf issues...what have you done to educate yourself on what they actually do, believe etc?  Have you put any effort into reaching out to them or do you believe it is entirely their responsibility to spoon feed it to you?

[KFhunter]

gosh,  where to start...


How about WDFW's condescending attitude at wolf meetings? Refusal to answer questions?
How about the public comment period when drafting our current wolf plan?
How about refusal of cattlemen money to fund a WDFW trapper and bio ride along?
How about CNW sitting on the Commission?
How about WDFW repeatedly denying wolf depredation?
How about WDFW denying wolf even exist in an area?
How about WDFW forcing their own field officers to phone Olympia for permission to say "yes, a wolf killed this calf"
How about WDFW pulling authorization from local LE to determine wolf depredation?
How about WDFW's acceptance of monies from NGO's who support the wolf agenda but disallow monies from pro-management NGO's?

How much you need?  You want copies of my emails to WDFW public comment periods?  Copies of my Emails to district reps?

You can pound sand you think I'll play that game with you.

[idahohuntr]

Yes, I see you are discontent.  Many of your questions are based on false premises.  You raise several issues which you could get logical responses and clarity if you wanted.  If you prefer to pout in the corner that is your perogative.  The point is, sometimes you have to listen as well as speak. 

On the condescending attitude, there is a rep for the wa trappers association that sent out a note after the Colville meeting appalled at how the public treated wdfw.  You might be surprised at the cooperation and dialogue you get if you respectfully engage wdfw staff AND demonstrate a willingness to listen.

[KFhunter]

I've listened to everything they've ever said, I even listen (read) to what you have to say.



I wish the reverse was true as well.

[idahohuntr]

Then it appears the only thing missing is engagement.  If you really want results you have to talk to the right people.  You can not address specific, tough issues by emailing comments during a public comment period and attending large adversarial public meetings.  Pick up the phone...you might be surprised.

Now, I'm directing this all at you but I intend it for all who have genuine interest in wa wolf management...be proactive in getting information straight from the tap...not the junk filtered by various advocacy groups.  You still may not like the answer but at least then your criticisms will be founded in facts and thus much more credible.  One last thing...offering solutions is a good way to open doors to criticisms you may have.  Everybody can list all the problems and critique all the decisions of wdfw managers...critics are dime a dozen...problem solvers...rare.

[bearpaw]

Then it appears the only thing missing is engagement.  If you really want results you have to talk to the right people.  You can not address specific, tough issues by emailing comments during a public comment period and attending large adversarial public meetings.  Pick up the phone...you might be surprised.

Now, I'm directing this all at you but I intend it for all who have genuine interest in wa wolf management...be proactive in getting information straight from the tap...not the junk filtered by various advocacy groups.  You still may not like the answer but at least then your criticisms will be founded in facts and thus much more credible.  One last thing...offering solutions is a good way to open doors to criticisms you may have.  Everybody can list all the problems and critique all the decisions of wdfw managers...critics are dime a dozen...problem solvers...rare.

 

While it would be nice if your idealistic comments about WDFW were true, my experiences with too many of the voices at WDFW/Olympia prove your comments are mostly false. Sorry, but the reality is WDFW has pretty much ignored everyone's input except the wolfers. I know because I've talked to most of them, they already have their minds made up on most issues and it's a waste of time to try and talk to them. I'm hoping the change in director will bring a change in upper management attitudes.

[idahohuntr]

No that is not the reality bearpaw.  And my advice was geared towards answering the long list of questions posed by KF, many of which are based on some false premises.  If you respectfully engage the right staff, Donny Martorello is a good one, you can get a lot of good information.  I'm not saying he will tell you things you will always agree with or that he (or others) have the authority to make changes, but they can clear up a lot of the misinformation such as wolf counts/confirmation/presence etc. that so many folks struggle with.

Yes, many of the big issues are resolved at high policy levels, but providing input to technical staff who communicate to the policy makers can have an impact.  My perception is that WDFW definitely wants a wolf hunting season...its just an absolute mine field to get there.  Google Unsworth and check out some of the green group articles about him floating around...one was titled "Idaho gun nut next director" or something close to that...as soon as Jim utters a word about wolves you can bet he will be attacked as trying to implement Idaho's plans and actions in Washington...my biggest concern is how long he will last in this state. There are already articles and links urging people to write the governor to block the hiring of Unsworth 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I was thinking about this thread again today while working out at the gym. Then it hit me. What I don't like about the billboard campaign is the fact that hunters are using the same tactics on the wolf issue as gun control people are using against gun owners. The politics of fear. I don't like it no matter which side is using it. Why does an issue have to be decided on by who can scare the most people into sharing their point of view?

Anti gunners propaganda fills TV screens with messages that guns serve no purpose, they are dangerous and your kid will end up being shot in school if we don't eliminate private gun ownership. Then hunters turn around and use the same cheap scare tactics against wolf recovery. And with wolves, the message has even less credibility than with guns. People, children included, do die from guns in high numbers. But I still don't believe that guns ownership should be banned. But implying that children are going to be eaten by wolves is ludicrous. And if you think that's a good message to use, then I guess you also accept that children are going to be killed by guns, therefor guns should be controlled or banned.

[pianoman9701]

So then the loudest voice out there should be the hysterical wolf huggers? One of the big problems with the I-594 campaign was that the pro 2A people didn't match the campaigns of the anti-2A people. The antis went off with millions to spend and lied for a year. The pro-2A people didn't do that and didn't sensationalize. So the more honorable race was run by the pro-2A side, even though they lost by a big margin.

Ever heard that you have to fight fire with fire? That's exactly what needs to happen in the media wolf debate. The greenies don't hesitate to embellish so that they can garner more support. Why shouldn't the ranchers meet them head-on? After all, it's the ranchers who have the most to lose here. It's not like the wolves are ever going to be eradicated now, far from it.

[bearpaw]

It's the residents of Stevens County who are already losing to wolves, no scare tactics about it, simply the truth of the matter. The rest of the state needs educated, even some on this forum appear to be ignoring the wolf damage that has already occurred.

[ribka]

So sportsmen should take the high road and lose more hunting areas and opportunities? Play  fair with the wolf hugers and you will lose every time. When more traditional groups use the radical left's tactics the few on here who lean left in their political views are quick to jump on here and vilify them I think we know who they are

Pman- I forgot about the I 594 campaign. I remember watching the TV ads and they were filled with misinformation and lies. I see by using sensationalism this misinformation this method was not an effective way to push their anti gun agenda. sarc

show billboard pics of wolf killed dead family pets, mutilated elk and deer.

Doctors, water, baby cribs kill 1000's of children a year too. i guess ban them with the firearms

I was thinking about this thread again today while working out at the gym. Then it hit me. What I don't like about the billboard campaign is the fact that hunters are using the same tactics on the wolf issue as gun control people are using against gun owners. The politics of fear. I don't like it no matter which side is using it. Why does an issue have to be decided on by who can scare the most people into sharing their point of view?

Anti gunners propaganda fills TV screens with messages that guns serve no purpose, they are dangerous and your kid will end up being shot in school if we don't eliminate private gun ownership. Then hunters turn around and use the same cheap scare tactics against wolf recovery. And with wolves, the message has even less credibility than with guns. People, children included, do die from guns in high numbers. But I still don't believe that guns ownership should be banned. But implying that children are going to be eaten by wolves is ludicrous. And if you think that's a good message to use, then I guess you also accept that children are going to be killed by guns, therefor guns should be controlled or banned.

[Ridgeratt]

It's the residents of Stevens County who are already losing to wolves, no scare tactics about it, simply the truth of the matter. The rest of the state needs educated, even some on this forum appear to be ignoring the wolf damage that has already occurred.

It has become easy to just sit on my fingers and watch the progression of woves in this state. 4+ years ago when we expressed our concerns, the sentiment was nothing to worry about they aren't in my area. As they move west more folks are interested.

Have a buddy who went through the state of Idaho trapping class to get a permit. He said  the instructor was from Alaska and during one of the breaks they sort of went off topic and Washington came up. He said that by the time Washington makes the management goals. Most of the state will be on a permit draw and you will call your friends asking if they want to go because one of you had drawn a permit.

He said his trap line was in a valley that he went up one side and back down the other and he trapped 30 + a year and the next year he repeated it. I think he said his trap line was 4 days each way.

I do look forward to the time when Bobcat has wolves in his backyard and for the record I have offered to donate to getting him some!!!   

[bobcat]

I do look forward to the time when Bobcat has wolves in his backyard and for the record I have offered to donate to getting him some!!!   

Not sure why all the love for me but I really don't care when the wolves get here. I know they will eventually, it's just a matter of when. The elk in SW Wa. are going extinct from hoof rot. All the timber companies with the exception of Port Blakely have closed their land to hunting by everyone except a small number of paying customers.

Those are the issues that really matter, and I'm in the process of learning other states so that within a few years I may not hunt this state for anything except maybe grouse and coyotes. I'm tired of losing access to hunting areas and I'm discouraged by the loss of at least 50% of the elk in SW Washington.

Bring on the wolves!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Have a buddy who went through the state of Idaho trapping class to get a permit. He said  the instructor was from Alaska and during one of the breaks they sort of went off topic and Washington came up. He said that by the time Washington makes the management goals. Most of the state will be on a permit draw and you will call your friends asking if they want to go because one of you had drawn a permit.

Bogus claim. Montana and Idaho have met their goals and are harvesting wolves and they haven't gone to permit draws yet. If Washington does, it ill only be because the State sees draw hunts as a cash cow, it wont be from wolves.

[wolfbait]

I would have to believe the instructor from Alaska, look at WDFW's performance to date of confirming anything wolf? And the fact that WDFW say they won't have enough confirmed BP's to delist for another seven years, in other wards WDFW is going to drag delisting out for 7 more years. ID, MT and Wyoming had more than enough wolves to delist in six years.

The new director came from IDFG, an outfit with a poor record in wolf management. It took IDFG several years to finally admit that wolves were the reason for the decline in the game herds, blaming habitat instead.

Now look at WA with wolf reports coming from all over and the fact it doesn't seem to make a difference in wolves being documented. The last pack WDFW confirmed they said they had known about the pack for a year, but yet they had refuse to confirm it until livestock predation.

I think the billboard idea was perfect! Mainstream media will not touch anything that tells the full truth about wolves, it's all spoon fed wolf propaganda from WDFW or CNW etc.. I think people were/are starting to ask questions and of course the pro-wolf side don't want any of the "wrong" questions answered. Defenders of Wildlife plastering their "I love the wolf" signs up all over kind of proves that.