Free: Contests & Raffles.
Quote from: pianoman9701 on January 12, 2015, 10:56:05 AMI disagree. There is no comparison between wolves and pets. You're right, there is no comparison. Dogs cause far more damage to farm animals and other dogs. And dogs actually regularly attack and kill and maim humans. And dogs are a plague on wild animals. (cats are a plague on song birds) I have seen many dog attacks on other people's dogs and cats, and I have seen a lot of dog damage to livestock including neighbors' dogs that got into our chicken house when I was a kid, a domestic sheep on Kodiak that had two large dogs grab it by the neck (the sheep was on a tether unlike the dogs) and they proceeded to pull the hide off the sheep all the way to it's ass. I pulled in right after the attack and the poor sheep was standing there quivering and had to be put down. My neighbors pygmy goat was also attacked and consumed by neighboring dogs. It was also on a tether. Ive seen cows harassed by dogs until it affected milk production, and calves killed.But that's not the point. The point is people should be able to protect their animals and property, and if need be their families from wolves or dogs without fear of the law. If that had been allowed from the start, there would be a lot less controversy about bringing wolves back and the government might even be getting more co-operation from people. Letting wolves get started without having to fear humans if they misbehaved was a bad idea.
I disagree. There is no comparison between wolves and pets.
Quote from: elkinrutdrivemenuts on January 12, 2015, 11:24:21 AMQuote from: bearpaw on January 12, 2015, 11:15:24 AMQuoteThe message should be, wolves need to be managed in balance with other game animals and people should be able to protect their pets and farm animals. Adding children to the mix dilutes the message, and distracts from the real problems associated with wolves.I couldn't agree more that wolves need to be managed, I've never stated that all wolves need wiped out, in fact I don't think anyone has said that on this forum. No matter if you want to admit it or not, people have been attacked in Washington. It's a shame that some people are not put into the same shoes as hirshey when she was stalked by wolves, our family friend who was forced to stay in a tree while wolves surrounded him, and my neighbor who shot an attacking wolf this last fall after being surrounded by wolves which has been confirmed by WDFW. Does someone have to die before you will admit people have been attacked in WA?Has anyone even really been attacked yet? I have heard of a couple close encounters between hunters and wolves, but cannot recall any where injuries were received. Depends on your definition of what it is to be attacked. Thankfully we can defend ourselves before it gets to point of receiving personal injury. WDFW said the guy in Stevens CO who shot the wolf was defending himself and no charges were levied, therefore he must have been attacked. If there was no attack then he wasn't defending himself and it would be contrary to law "poaching" and he would have faced charges. Seems to me people have been attacked in WA.
Quote from: bearpaw on January 12, 2015, 11:15:24 AMQuoteThe message should be, wolves need to be managed in balance with other game animals and people should be able to protect their pets and farm animals. Adding children to the mix dilutes the message, and distracts from the real problems associated with wolves.I couldn't agree more that wolves need to be managed, I've never stated that all wolves need wiped out, in fact I don't think anyone has said that on this forum. No matter if you want to admit it or not, people have been attacked in Washington. It's a shame that some people are not put into the same shoes as hirshey when she was stalked by wolves, our family friend who was forced to stay in a tree while wolves surrounded him, and my neighbor who shot an attacking wolf this last fall after being surrounded by wolves which has been confirmed by WDFW. Does someone have to die before you will admit people have been attacked in WA?Has anyone even really been attacked yet? I have heard of a couple close encounters between hunters and wolves, but cannot recall any where injuries were received.
QuoteThe message should be, wolves need to be managed in balance with other game animals and people should be able to protect their pets and farm animals. Adding children to the mix dilutes the message, and distracts from the real problems associated with wolves.I couldn't agree more that wolves need to be managed, I've never stated that all wolves need wiped out, in fact I don't think anyone has said that on this forum. No matter if you want to admit it or not, people have been attacked in Washington. It's a shame that some people are not put into the same shoes as hirshey when she was stalked by wolves, our family friend who was forced to stay in a tree while wolves surrounded him, and my neighbor who shot an attacking wolf this last fall after being surrounded by wolves which has been confirmed by WDFW. Does someone have to die before you will admit people have been attacked in WA?
The message should be, wolves need to be managed in balance with other game animals and people should be able to protect their pets and farm animals. Adding children to the mix dilutes the message, and distracts from the real problems associated with wolves.
We shoot dogs harassing or threatening us. If WA went to coyote rules for wolves it would be much the same. Wolves would then live in the hills far away from people and would be shot when they threatened livestock - then this issue would go away....AND we'd still have plenty of wolves in Washington. The problem is social tolerance for this doesn't exist for the pro-wolfers, they'd rather force these wolves upon us and try to figure out why our social tolerance for wolves doesn't exist either.
Quote from: bearpaw on January 12, 2015, 11:15:24 AMQuoteThe message should be, wolves need to be managed in balance with other game animals and people should be able to protect their pets and farm animals. Adding children to the mix dilutes the message, and distracts from the real problems associated with wolves.I couldn't agree more that wolves need to be managed, I've never stated that all wolves need wiped out, in fact I don't think anyone has said that on this forum. No matter if you want to admit it or not, people have been attacked in Washington. It's a shame that some people are not put into the same shoes as hirshey when she was stalked by wolves, our family friend who was forced to stay in a tree while wolves surrounded him, and my neighbor who shot an attacking wolf this last fall after being surrounded by wolves which has been confirmed by WDFW. Does someone have to die before you will admit people have been attacked in WA?Dale, you are being disingenuous by saying there aren't people on this site who have stated that wolves need to be wiped out. I could name several and paste some of their quotes, but it's not worth the effort.Hershy may have been stalked by wolves, possibly out of curiosity or because she was near a den, but she was not attacked. The guy in the tree was not attacked. Ill even give you the young guy who shot the wolf. It's possible he was attacked. Was he bitten? But there is one commonality here. These three people were all out in wolf country which is no different than being in bear country or cougar country. You need to be aware and you need to be prepared. I know people who have climbed trees because bears were in the area too. I also have friends who have been attacked by bears and bitten, one two different times. I can think of 5 off the top of my head including one who was seriously mauled last summer. It's part of the risk of being in the outdoors. Nobody puts up billboards implying bears need to be reduced or killed off because they will eat children. But they don't belong in people habitat and the ones that cross the line need to be removed. When we are in the woods we are in their habitat and need to realize that and be prepared.I'm glad all three mentioned were unscathed for their adventures. My own adventures involved bears (I've only seen a handful of wolves in the wild), and in mostly unarmed situations so I know the feeling. Even the couple times I was armed, facing down a big brownie at 25 yards or less is a hair raising proposition. But I'm still not going to proclaim we need to kill bears because they will eat children. And I won't let fear keep me out of the wilderness.
Perhaps wolfbait could draw us a map of where he would like wolves established in Wa to settle this argument
Sounds like Hoquiam needs a few of our wolves.
The bulk of HW members are not anti-wolf, they're pro management. HW members want them documented and de-listed where possible and most would like the current wolf plan revisited.
Quote from: idahohuntr on January 12, 2015, 01:15:28 PMPerhaps wolfbait could draw us a map of where he would like wolves established in Wa to settle this argument In many cases your antagonistic comments/behavior promotes the worst comments from other members. Wolfbait will have to speak for himself, but I don't remember anyone saying all wolves should be killed. It seems to me most people object to the fact that unmanaged numbers of wolves are being forced into the areas where we live and hunt.My OpinionIf wolf numbers are managed and some other predator numbers are reduced to make room for wolves, then there should not be a problem, there should be little impacts on our herds having a few wolves in remote areas where they do not impact human inhabitants and livestock. Some areas in Idaho where the wolf populations and bear and lion populations are being reduced this is already beginning to balance out.
Quote from: bearpaw on January 12, 2015, 01:26:50 PMQuote from: idahohuntr on January 12, 2015, 01:15:28 PMPerhaps wolfbait could draw us a map of where he would like wolves established in Wa to settle this argument In many cases your antagonistic comments/behavior promotes the worst comments from other members. Wolfbait will have to speak for himself, but I don't remember anyone saying all wolves should be killed. It seems to me most people object to the fact that unmanaged numbers of wolves are being forced into the areas where we live and hunt.My OpinionIf wolf numbers are managed and some other predator numbers are reduced to make room for wolves, then there should not be a problem, there should be little impacts on our herds having a few wolves in remote areas where they do not impact human inhabitants and livestock. Some areas in Idaho where the wolf populations and bear and lion populations are being reduced this is already beginning to balance out.I will ignore your pot/kettle comment to stay on topic here.I would say ALL HW members support wolf management and hunting. I seriously would like to know where folks like wolfbait would tolerate wolves in Wa state. Piano says wilderness only. What about some of you others...where can wolves live in WA? Everywhere as long as they are kept to 1 pack per 100 sq miles....or What is acceptable?
