Beaver, Mountain Beaver and furbearer populations

[Humptulips]

I thought I would start a discussion to find out if what I am seeing is widespread.

Beaver, I swear they seem to be just about extinct here. I have trapped the same line for 40 years and prior to I-713 I took around a 120 beaver a year every year. Trapped the same places year after year and never really hurt the population. I should add I wasn't the only trapper at that time in the area. In 2000 I started trapping Oregon and didn't trap for the most part in WA. To my knowledge no one else trapped the line either during this time. When I came back to it I was shocked to see how few beaver were around. It has continued to decline to the point this year there are practically no beaver. I feel ashamed if I even catch one in an otter set. I have seen a lot of cougar sign around anyplace there have been beaver the last few years and believe this is all a result of the huge cougar population we have. I'm not exaggerating when I say beaver have become a rarity on the Humptulips River drainage.
I have heard similar stories from along the coast. Seems to be beaver where there are settled areas but out in the boon docks zilch.
Anyone else seeing this?

Along with the beaver the otter seems to have had a marked drop off in numbers. Part of this I think is habitat. The beaver ponds are for the most part all gone and with that a lot of good forage areas for otter. Another part is the lack of Salmon making it to spawn. I see very few fish spawning compared to years past and it seems to go down every year.
Less food= less otter. I was out the other day in a place that used to be a killer spot for beaver and otter and saw a net in the river. It made me wonder how many otter are killed by Indians. Both accidentally in nets and on purpose from shooting them around the nets.
I used to figure on catching an otter a day. Couldn't catch one a week now even with conventional traps.
Thoughts?

Mountain beaver,
I'm wondering what you are seeing especially some of you that are doing good on cats. I will tell you something has happened along the coast. Mountain beavers have disappeared on both private and public lands. Can't say what it is. Disease? Climate Change? I just know they are gone and I think it has impacted predators such as cats and coyotes. It was what they ate here.
I've heard guys from the Cascades say plenty of them and even from the sound but also heard of the disappearance from guys along the coast.
What are you seeing?

[eburgtrapper]

I live and have trapped in ellensburg for 17 years. I have never seen so many beavers. alot of the swamps I trap rats in had beavers in them this year.  On a five mile drive I can point out 8 different beavers in 6 different creeks.  I wrote a post earlier about the state doing relocation projects away from my area. I don't know if that has to do anything with it, but back when I was using steel traps for rats the population seamed to stay pretty consistent, three years ago I didn't seam to see rats any where. It has made me wonder if us, as trappers, help out the population more than we think by helping with over-population and deceases problems. Just my two cents

Jordan

[Smossy]

I dont know technicals around it but there's so much beaver damage around here land owners have been seeking me out when I drive by with my traps on the roof and a giant HUNTING WA decal on the sides of the truck. Creating lots of problems, lots of dams, and lots of flooding to the local land owners properties.

[Humptulips]

I live and have trapped in ellensburg for 17 years. I have never seen so many beavers. alot of the swamps I trap rats in had beavers in them this year.  On a five mile drive I can point out 8 different beavers in 6 different creeks.  I wrote a post earlier about the state doing relocation projects away from my area. I don't know if that has to do anything with it, but back when I was using steel traps for rats the population seamed to stay pretty consistent, three years ago I didn't seam to see rats any where. It has made me wonder if us, as trappers, help out the population more than we think by helping with over-population and deceases problems. Just my two cents

Jordan

What kind of country? Open?

[JimmyHoffa]

I have actually been seeing a few more beavers in the last couple years.  Makes it kind of interesting walking down the river banks and all the alders have been gnawed to sharp stakes sticking out of the ground.  I don't trap, but I look for beavers for cougar hunting.
As for otters, see a few around; but not nearly like the days when there were more fish.

[eburgtrapper]

Mostly agricultural areas. Mostly around hay fields and cow pastors. Right where that guy is standing is the start of a hay field. Not to get off topic but this was an interesting beaver. One picture the beaver climbed about 5 feet and chewed on this tree and the other (about five feet away) he would cut a foot off the tree, it dropped then he would cut another foot off. He did it 5 or 6 times but the tree never fell over for him.

[Hannibal]

bruce, I have taken the same amount of beaver out off the drainage that i trap for money for 13 years because it is feed from the river or an area that is not in a drainage distinct.

what i can say is by removing otter by incidental catch, I have seen the return of cut throat trout in area that I thought they were non existent. And I do not meen one of to but  large numbers of returning spooning fish
 

[Trapper John]

Bruce,
As you know when I had my business it was mostly in king county.  I sold my business two years ago and even than the beaver population was high and still is.  I use to take anywhere between 250-300 beaver every year in king county and I did that for 30 years.  The population of these guys I believe is high and always has been.  Just look at who use to trap in King county years ago.  Paul Hatch, Chuck Bailey, Carl Jensen, Tom Mitchel, Fred Lawrence, myself, and quite a few other guys too.  We took large numbers back in the 80's and into the 90's.  I use to have several large contracts in Snohomish county also when I was in business that I did for beaver, here again the population is high in the county too.

I have notice one thing and that is the muskrat population dropped over the years in king county once the nutria started coming back.  Mountain beaver in king county is another problem I dealt with on a regular bases too.  Large pockets of mountain beaver around Seattle.  I know a company that took 234 nutria off of Lake Washington in 30 days.  The nutria has moved from the sound to lake Washington to lake Sammamish and surrounding creeks and ponds.

Otter...........everywhere around King & Snohomish counties.  I was down in King county today and took the back roads home.  Drove up north on route 203 and there are beaver sign everyplace you look.    No shortage here.

Bobcats, coyotes, raccoons, opossums, beaver, river otter, nutria, mountain beaver and even gray squirrels we don't have a shortage up here.    Muskrats................another story.

Maybe in your area it could be several items why you are lacking critters.  One might be logging over the years.  It takes years for wildlife to come back once habitat is lost.  Flooding I think is another one.  You folks get a lot of rain over there compared to other counties.  Mountain lion, could be a problem if there is a large population but I don't think it is all of your problem.
JC   

[nacheshunter]

Over here in most drainages that have been center for restoration projects, I have seen major increases in beavers, muskrats, and a few otters as well.  Since the yakama nation and wdfw started restoring salmon habitat to these areas, there have been quite a few beaver dams erected and creeks dont look the same. I sure wish I trapped for beaver as I could make money, but beavers are essential for restoring the salmon and riparian habitat along rivers and streams.

[Humptulips]

I have actually been seeing a few more beavers in the last couple years.  Makes it kind of interesting walking down the river banks and all the alders have been gnawed to sharp stakes sticking out of the ground.  I don't trap, but I look for beavers for cougar hunting.
As for otters, see a few around; but not nearly like the days when there were more fish.

What part of the OP?
Seems like I'm hearing from agricultural and more populated areas and the beaver are doing fine there.
What I first saw here was no beaver survived in the small creeks where they were accessible to predators and I'm talking far from any people. Be interesting to hear from someone who traps similar area with heavy growth and not many people.

John,
I can't buy the flooding idea. I have seen it pour down rain through the years and it never phased the beavers before. I don't buy disease either. If that was the case it would have been sudden. It has taken 15 years for beaver to collapse here. Over harvest but not by trappers is my guess, Meow!
Funny the deal with Mountain Beaver. I spoke with Trey and he said lots of work killing them near Seattle. I spoke to a guy that does Forestry for a timber company based in GH. He said they have zero problems anymore. I saw a similar thing when I trapped in OR. Old tunnels but nothing fresh. Could be disease or ? We'll never have many cats without them.

Dave, I used to catch a bunch of otter, 73 one year. Spawners just keep going down. Of course the river wasn't filled with gillnets 24/7 back then.

[bearpaw]

We find beaver kills by cougar pretty regular when we are cougar hunting in Idaho and back when I could cougar hunt in Washington we found beaver kills pretty regular too. But I cannot ever remember seeing a colony of beaver wiped out by cougar. I think your big decrease in beaver must involve other factors. Maybe ask a few of those tribal fishermen if they ever catch beaver in their nets? 

[Carp Commander]

Bruce,

I don't have a historic reference but the Columbia Basin seems to be crawling with beavers. The amount of damage complaints I get is crazy. I even find high populations have moved into the canal ditches.

Everywhere I go from farm ponds, canal ditches, golf courses and the main river systems holds beaver and usually a mad farmer because of them.

Beavers have been the reason for some very good land access. Every time I stop and talk to a land owner for permission to trap the first question I get is "Can you trap those damn beavers".

Doug

[onetrapper]

Anecdotally the cougar thing stands out...unpopulated high cat areas with no dog control then shrinking beaver pops... either way WDFW biologists don't care about it.

[Jonathan_S]

Bruce asked about the rural locations, not near farms and towns.

Bruce, I have found a lot of empty beaver ponds and dams that are back in the woods.  I find areas that have sign of beavers 5-10 years ago but nothing now.

[JimmyHoffa]

What part of the OP?
Seems like I'm hearing from agricultural and more populated areas and the beaver are doing fine there.
What I first saw here was no beaver survived in the small creeks where they were accessible to predators and I'm talking far from any people. Be interesting to hear from someone who traps similar area with heavy growth and not many people.

I'm seeing more around the Dickey River, Lake Wentworth, Lake Pleasant, etc. that area.  But since you are looking to connect dots....there is quite a bit of hound hunting out there. 
Also see a few more along the Hoh (not a lot, just more than in the past), but in that area there was an uptick in cougar.  Surprised I hardly find any on the Clearwater, seems like better habitat than all the other areas I mentioned.  I really don't see much for otter at all on the Clearwater these days.  The Hoh used to have a ton.  One fishing hole had thirteen in it one day.  I've watched otters before grab a steelhead or salmon and drag it to the bank and go back in to get another, didn't even eat it--they had about half a dozen and were still going at it.  Do you think fishers, maybe?  The other animal we've seen/heard a lot more are coyotes.

[Coastal_native]

Hump,

You should talk to the Quinault Wildlife Bio.  He is monitoring a few cougars with GPS collars that use the areas you likely trap.  He's documented darn near every one of their kills over the last few years and I think beaver kills have been rare, if any.  I've not noticed a dip in the beaver population on the rez...although my knowledge only goes back 15 years.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Must be where you live  No shortage of Beaver or Mountain Beaver in these parts . Last year I sat on a mountain side hunting bear when I watched mountain beaver falling fire weed like a lumber jack falling timber  It was something to see.. actually kept me entertained for a couple hours !

[Jonathan_S]

Must be where you live  No shortage of Beaver or Mountain Beaver in these parts . Last year I sat on a mountain side hunting bear when I watched mountain beaver falling fire weed like a lumber jack falling timber  It was something to see.. actually kept me entertained for a couple hours !

Those boomers are really something else.  They are so primitive they have to drink like half their body weight each day to stay alive.

[big wood]

Could be disease. I have seen 2- 70" plus beaver on my lines the last 2 years dead, just laying there without a mark on them. Last week the one I seen must have floated down during high water and got hung up. When the water reseded it layer on an island 20' from my Trap. I was perplexed. One each year.

[Humptulips]

We find beaver kills by cougar pretty regular when we are cougar hunting in Idaho and back when I could cougar hunt in Washington we found beaver kills pretty regular too. But I cannot ever remember seeing a colony of beaver wiped out by cougar. I think your big decrease in beaver must involve other factors. Maybe ask a few of those tribal fishermen if they ever catch beaver in their nets? 

Dale,
I know of one beaver colony that was wiped out by cougar. Kind of unusual as the beaver had no access to the river. It was a creek that came out of the Olympics and ran into the ground. One year on an extremely high flood water some beaver found there way in and I watched them for several years as they increased. I had decided I would carefully husband them as isolated as they were. One year I went in there and had decided it would be OK to take out two a year. They were all gone but I did find some covered mounds like cougar do with a few beaver bones in them. Never been a beaver there since.
That is unusual though. What I am seeing has been a gradual decline over a pretty large area. It kind of mimics the drop in deer here.

Hump,

You should talk to the Quinault Wildlife Bio.  He is monitoring a few cougars with GPS collars that use the areas you likely trap.  He's documented darn near every one of their kills over the last few years and I think beaver kills have been rare, if any.  I've not noticed a dip in the beaver population on the rez...although my knowledge only goes back 15 years.

I got a peek kind of second hand of some of the information the Makahs were getting on some radio collared cougar. I believe they had some cougar that specialized in beaver, didn't hunt deer or elk just beaver.
I don't spend much time on the rez now but from what I have seen is the beaver population is way down there too.

Could be disease. I have seen 2- 70" plus beaver on my lines the last 2 years dead, just laying there without a mark on them. Last week the one I seen must have floated down during high water and got hung up. When the water reseded it layer on an island 20' from my Trap. I was perplexed. One each year.

No way it is disease. If it was disease it would be more abrupt not a 15 year slide.

Incidentally, Out setting some traps today and jumped a cougar along the shore about 20 feet from me when it took off. It was eating a salmon not a beaver.

[3nails]

Bruce- Are you anywhere near where the elk are suffering from hoof rot? Possible herbicide/pesticide poisoning?

[billythekidrock]

Seems like this year I am seeing way more mt beaver sign than in recent years in the Capitol Forest. Even got pics of one after it ran across the C line in the middle of the day

[Humptulips]

Bruce- Are you anywhere near where the elk are suffering from hoof rot? Possible herbicide/pesticide poisoning?

No hoof rot here. I'm not a fan of spraying and it does have a negative effect on cat trapping for me but I can't see a connection  with  what I am seeing.

Seems like this year I am seeing way more mt beaver sign than in recent years in the Capitol Forest. Even got pics of one after it ran across the C line in the middle of the day

Well, That is good news. Gives me hope for the future.
I spoke with Professor Vet M/p-Veterinary Microbiology/Path of Washington State University Bill Foryet about this and he said it was likely disease with the best possibility being tularemia.
If so they should come back.

[onetrapper]

Of course spraying has been unchecked for decades around Twin Harbors.. If deer population have dropped because of it the the cougar would definitely hit the beaver harder.

[ouchfoss]

I actually talked to a guy who traps the Clearwater and he came to the same conclusion Bruce did. He,s trapped that area for 40 years and he said there isn't one spot worth throwing a trap into for beavers. I went up there two weeks ago to try for a beaver and of the few spots that had sign in them last year, not one had new sign since. I ended up getting one decent size beaver on an otter set by the river but after that, I pulled all my sets because it isn't worth the gas to drive up there for no new sign.

[ouchfoss]

I have seen plenty of mountain beaver sign though. I had one actually leave a big wad of brush and leaves up against a cat live trap. Following day, the brush was all gone.

[wags]

Bruce,
I don't know if my experience on the mainland of SE Alaska is relevant, but in the last ten years the beaver have gotten a lot more scarce. The area I trap had a lot of logging activity in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Then Clinton shut it down. The beaver ponds are now being shaded out by re-prod. The beaver have to move back into the brush further from the waters edge to get feed (huckleberry brush and other marginal food). The wolves are mopping them up. It wouldn't surprise me if the cats are doing the same thing on the OP.
It's not just the lack of logging either. It's cyclical, beaver tend to eat themselves out of house and home in areas with heavy coniferous timber. Beaver are their own worst enemy.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Bruce, the big change up the Hump is that its been turned into a giant Douglas Fir farm. That ain't Beaver food. They like willows and alder and other hardwoods. Back in the 70s and 80s I spent a lot of time up the Hump and there were lots of hardwoods then mixed in with the evergreens. The only place I've seen beavers that regularly ate on the bark of evergreens was on Afognak Island north of Kodiak, and those beavers went after Sitka Spruce of all things.

I keep telling you, that logging has screwed up the Humptulips drainage, not just for beavers and salmon, but for deer and elk also. But it's not logging itself that is bad, it's the techniques and management practices and the spraying. Monoculture is not good for the woods.

[Humptulips]

I get the whole habitat argument but there is a lot more going on then that. The lower river especially has plenty of good habitat but few beaver.
The tree farms may not be the best but to blame it all on them is really closing your eyes.
Copalis river is a good example of beaver making do in the past. I doubt they ever saw a maple, cottonwood and few willows. I've seen them cut practically everything including devils clubs. They were skinny but they survived. Now they are just gone.
I think one of the worst things from a habitat stand point has been the RMZs. Fresh growth along the streams was good for the beaver, much better then the larger trees and shade you get with the RMZs. Doesn't explain the swamps and sloughs along the lower river being empty though.