WDFW Proposal Closes Hunting on 20 SQUARE MILES of public land

[fireweed]

The WDFW's new proposal to manage the elk in the Margaret unit has roadkill--anyone who hunts something other than elk on public land in the Margaret is out of luck.  Their proposal cuts off a portion of the Margaret unit (which is currently open to deer, bear, courgar etc. and elk by permit) and adds it to the Loowit unit, Which is CLOSED to everything except elk by permit. 

If they do this, it makes it that much easier to close the Monument to all hunting, and shift it to a park. 
Better comment now or public hunting could take a big hit.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

The WDFW's new proposal to manage the elk in the Margaret unit has roadkill--anyone who hunts something other than elk on public land in the Margaret is out of luck.  Their proposal cuts off a portion of the Margaret unit (which is currently open to deer, bear, courgar etc. and elk by permit) and adds it to the Loowit unit, Which is CLOSED to everything except elk by permit. 

If they do this, it makes it that much easier to close the Monument to all hunting, and shift it to a park. 
Better comment now or public hunting could take a big hit.

I'm not familiar with this but I have a vested interest in helping out my fellow hunters save hunting opportunity (much like I am trying to get fellow hunters on board with helping us save our liberty to bait for deer/elk which we love to do during the late bow season). For this reason... I would like to provide comment on this topic... Do you have any other info that I could use to format a good argument and which area I am specifically looking to comment on. I want to help out in any way possible I just don't have time to do the additional research.

After reading the latest data from WDFW I am starting to realize there is definitely an agenda to lower hunter opportunities and as a hunter I am not going to stand by and watch it happen without being heard. They are dividing hunters and pitting them against each other and then attacking the weakness (exactly what they are doing with the baiting issue).

[Skyvalhunter]

Maybe someone needs to ask them the question and see if there is any validity to thier response.

[fireweed]

I emailed a person I know in WDFW about this issue:  That enlarging the Loowit closes public land other types of hunting.  He seems to have recognized the problem too.  I would suggest anyone who hunts Margaret for anything other than elk, or anyone concerned with lower hunting opportunity in general,  contact the Department or comment on the website before Feb 24.

here's his  response:
"I have already discussed this issue with our Deer and Elk Section Manager and will forward your message to him and a few others to consider.  Thanks for contacting us directly with this concern.  The piece of this question that is difficult to quantify is exactly how much use the area in question receives for hunting other species.  Your message helps somewhat in that regard."

[Elkstuffer]

I've never hunted the Margaret unit but strongly opposed to the Dept taking away more land/opportunity from hunters. I voiced my opinion on the website and I suggest everyone else does so before the Feb 24th deadline. Even if you don't hunt this area it is only a matter of time before they take away an area that you do.

[mfswallace]

I've never hunted the Margaret unit but strongly opposed to the Dept taking away more land/opportunity from hunters. I voiced my opinion on the website and I suggest everyone else does so before the Feb 24th deadline. Even if you don't hunt this area it is only a matter of time before they take away an area that you do.

Can you link where to post comment

[kentrek]

If this happens I won't be deer hunting in wa for the 2nd year in a row

[fireweed]

I've never hunted the Margaret unit but strongly opposed to the Dept taking away more land/opportunity from hunters. I voiced my opinion on the website and I suggest everyone else does so before the Feb 24th deadline. Even if you don't hunt this area it is only a matter of time before they take away an area that you do.

Can you link where to post comment

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/seasonsetting/

Either comment in Elk areas changes or Game management Unit Boundaries Region 5

[Netminder01]

tag

[fireweed]

Here's another email.  They are justifying closing 20 square miles to hunting because the USFS and Weyco say it's ok.

"The intent of the combined switch of GMU 524 Margaret to general season elk, movement of the easternmost portion of 524 into 522 (Loo-Wit) and creation of the new Norway Pass elk area are all designed to work together to appropriately manage hunting . . . .not reduce opportunity.  Specifically, the USFS Mt. St. Helens Volcanic Monument lands would join much of the remainder of the Monument in 522 (Loo-Wit) and all of 524 (Margaret) would be private. 
 
For further reference, GMU 524 is currently 96 square miles, the proposed change would move about 20 square miles from 524 into 522 (Loo-Wit).   Note also that about 4 square miles of the area proposed for change is in an area administratively closed by USFS where shooting and off-trail travel are not allowed because of proximity to Visitors Centers, parking areas, trailheads, etc.  This location has been problematic for several years with Margaret Special Permit Elk hunters sometimes unclear about the USFS regulations in this area and elk commonly frequenting this area. 

You do correctly mention that the area removed from 524 and placed into 522 would (at least under our current closure to all hunting except elk by permit system) close this area to deer and other hunting.  However, the main hunting of relevance is for elk and this would be retained by permit, as is allowed now.  This would be offered within the Norway Pass Elk Area rather than as a part of the Margaret hunt. 

The following is a summary of the contribution that the entire GMU 524 (Margaret) currently contributes to the overall hunting opportunity in Region 5 for deer, bear and cougar.   Keep in mind that only about one-fifth of this area would change to 522 Loo-Wit.

Mean total deer harvest 2011-13 = 16.  This represents roughly one-third of one percent of  the Region 5 deer harvest. 

Mean bear harvest 2011-13 = 1.67.  This represents roughly 1.2% of the Region 5 bear harvest (5 total animals over three years). 
I show no record of a cougar being taken in 524 during 2011 to now. 
WDFW has introduced these proposed changes throughout the current 3-year season setting process and received responses of greater than 50% in favor of the proposals.  Additionally, the relevant landowners (USFS and Weyerhaeuser) are supportive of the changes.  Similarly,  most of the hunters that I’ve personally spoken to about this agree that the changes make sense from a hunting management and land ownership standpoint. 

 Finally, it is possible that WDFW could change our rule related to GMU 522 being closed to hunting except for elk by permit.  Possibly such a change could offer some deer or even other hunting in the accessible portions of 522 in a similar fashion to the current elk permits that area offered.   WDFW would need to conduct public scoping and secure landowner (USFS) support  during the 2018-20 3-year season setting process to implement such a change.  "

[bobcat]

Actually, from that explanation, it does sound reasonable to me. I think he's right that very few people hunt deer, bear, or cougar in that area. And, like he said, it would be a possibility in the future to open up a portion of Loo wit for hunting.

fireweed, is this an area that you personally want to hunt deer or bear in?

[Skyvalhunter]

Bob we don't want to start closing public land that's a slippery slope.

[fireweed]

The WDFW Elk/Deer guy dismisses the opportunity here because not many deer are taken.  Just like any Wilderness hunt, this area is not for the drive-by-shooter interested in a quick buck.  If you go in here, you are looking for a "quality" deer and a backcountry experience.  Yes, my family hunts this area and we have for years. I hunted it last year with my kids for grouse and deer.   I got my first deer just outside the area they plan to close.  I've run into bear hunters in there, too. 

  I have been working to open more land in the Loowit for several years and proposed to the WDFW expansion of the mudflow unit and adding the Whittier tag--both items they did.  The WDFW deer/elk biologist who sent me that email isn't very familiar with the history of the area or the rules of the MOnument.  Most of the monument is open--part of Lewis River, Winson, and Packwood, Toutle and Margaret and some the Loowit (which is the only part closed to hunting).  This proposal adds 20 square miles of the Margaret and makes it Loowit.    Also in the background, is the Monument has no manager right now, and their "scientist" is the interim manager.  Needless to say, he's not a big fan of the part of the Monument Act that requires game and fish to be managed by the state.  makes me wonder how after years of less restrictions, all of a sudden they consider closing over 12,000 acres as insignificant.

Also he says the public supports the idea.  Sure, we remember filling out the surveys on the options for the Margaret unit, but does anyone remember it saying, "by the way, to do this we will close 20 square miles to hunting in general." 

[bobcat]

Okay, well I will send in a comment requesting to have that part of the new Loo wit unit open for hunting.

[fireweed]

Okay, well I will send in a comment requesting to have that part of the new Loo wit unit open for hunting.

Thanks!!  All these "little" areas closed to hunting add up over time, and keeping areas open is especially important when they are on public land.

[elkboy]

This is a worrisome trend.  Just because black-tailed deer are not being taken in the blast zone doesn't mean that this will not be an excellent area in years to come.  As the vegetation becomes denser, and with greater shrub cover, deer will eventually increase, possibly to a high density.  I think they could address their concerns about hunter/Monument visitor interaction with a specific rule about hunting near roads in affected areas.   

[huntndad]

WDFW has introduced these proposed changes throughout the current 3-year season setting process and received responses of greater than 50% in favor of the proposals.  Additionally, the relevant landowners (USFS and Weyerhaeuser) are supportive of the changes. 


Take generic yes/no survey questions and use them to justify any agenda.

[fireweed]

"you have to pass it to find out what's in it"

[bigtex]

Bob we don't want to start closing public land that's a slippery slope.

This isn't closing public land to access. There are many GMUs that don't have a general elk/deer season that have a ton of public land, such as the Desert GMU. As WDFW said, elk hunting will continue in this area through a new elk area via a special permit.

[grundy53]

Bob we don't want to start closing public land that's a slippery slope.

This isn't closing public land to access. There are many GMUs that don't have a general elk/deer season that have a ton of public land, such as the Desert GMU. As WDFW said, elk hunting will continue in this area through a new elk area via a special permit.

Pretty sure he meant closing to hunting.
This closes the area to deer and bear hunting.

[fireweed]

Got an update yesterday: and it's more good news than bad
The new proposal has keeps most of the area in the Margaret Unit and only moves the controversial side hill around Coldwater (which the USFS has managed as a stay-on-trail rule area) into the Loowit.  Instead of nearly 13,000 acres closed to hunting (except for permit elk), the new proposal closes 4,000 acres to all hunting--including permit elk.  This 4000 acres is still too large an area, and should be chopped into.

[HntnFsh]

Thank you for the update fireweed. And I agree. Its still too much land taken away!

[CAMPMEAT]

If this happens I won't be deer hunting in wa for the 2nd year in a row

I'm with you. I haven't hunted deer in state for 3 years. Predators only.