Canadian hunter pays record $390K for right to hunt 1 mule deer on Antelope Is..

[fishngamereaper]

I support the Mule deer foundation and any other group that supports recovery, habit etc....I just don't trust WDFW if they where approached by a large group like this, "Hey, we hear you have a couple of units that produce big mule deer. How's about you shut them down for OTC guys and we auction off premium tags for it. We will give you 90%  of the take".....

I'm not against guys spending their money like this, it is their money. I've just watched over the years how people spending big money on these hunts seems to have a ripple affect. When they find out people are willing to pay a certain amount for X..the price of X is going to go up.  Pretty soon the price of X is only attainable by a small amount of the population. 

I don't know of any unit in Utah that was closed down and all the tags made into auction tags. If you are referring to Antelope Island you need to know the whole story. That is a state park, there wasn't any open public hunting. The legislature approved a handful of tags which has produced 1.4 million for maintaining the island plus they are moving deer from the island to other areas. In the article it says they have only used 1/3 of the revenue and the legislature may consider using dollars in other places to benefit wildlife.

I doubt anyone would ever approach WDFW and ask them to make all permits in any existing hunt unit auction permits. I think every hunter in the state would oppose that!

WA does have raffle tags available all around the state that anyone can buy tickets to enter and I think there is 1 auction tag for each specie around the state. Funds from those tags help support far more wildlife than the few animals that are killed by those tag holders.

I understand there are differing opinions, but it's important to use accurate info to support opinions.

I don't disagree, and understand the logistics as they pertain to that island. But when states see that kind of coin being spent? I just don't know.. Do you feel WDFW is more interested in wildlife management or money? Honestly sometimes I don't know, which is what scares me.

[baldopepper]

Im all for conservation but geez..thats crazy to spend that much on a tag. My biggest fear is that in the long run really good mule deer hunts are going to become a rich mans game. How long before prime hunts in all the western states become auction tags.

Good for him if he can swing that kind of coin, but I just don't get it.

If Sportsman for fish and wildlife have their way, it won't be long.  They honestly seem to think that the states should not be giving away cheaply (i.e. drawings or raffles) permits that can obviously be sold for huge amounts.  They would like to privatize the permit system so that all premium permits go to the highest bidder and they would also like to establish more areas that are off-limits to the average hunter so that more valuable permits could be generated to hunt in that area.  Heck of a plan if you can get yourself in the position to be the broker on these permits (at a "small" percentage of the bid of course).

Do you have a link to some reliable information stating this?
FYI - Utah has increased the number of elk draw tags available to the public over the last few years!

I'm really lousy at posting links (frankly don't know how) but google Don Peay and read "Did Don Peay organization essentially buy Utah".  I'm not attacking the Mule Deer Foundation, but I think before you make a donation to any charity, especially a large donation, you research them carefully and see where your money is going.  As we all know, premium permits are big ticket items these days and a valuable asset to the states and sportsman of those states.  Very tempting to figure out a way to siphon off some of this money that should be going to the actual cause we're supporting.  If you agree with what his organizations are doing and how they're doing it, then I guess I'm ok with that.  Personally I'm not.

I read the story and I would say that it sounds like the author is opposed to limited-entry hunts, opposed to trophy management, opposed to Utah's effective effort to keep wolves under control, and even opposed to the Mormon church. The bottom line is that mormons are the majority in Utah so they are going to make the rules. If a person can't get along with mormons there are 49 other states to live or visit!

SFFW has a huge following in Utah, in short, they are doing what many hunters who live there seem to prefer. Utah has a thriving economy yet wildlife abounds in remote areas, in agricultural areas, and in the middle of oil and gas exploration! There are world class hunting opportunities all over the state and many areas have over the counter tags for anyone who wants to hunt. There are 30"+ mule deer available by walking right out of the city limits of most cities all along the Wasatch front.

Utah also has probably the least expensive non-resident licenses and tags of any western state yet offers hunters some of the highest quality hunting opportunities. There are draw areas and there are over the counter hunt areas. In draw areas tags are split 50/50 between random applicants and the applicants with the most points, I think it's the best point system of any state. Utah also has more youth hunting opportunities than almost any other state. If Utahans didn't like SFFW I doubt the SFFW banquets would be so well attended.

Utah is one of the states I would move to if I moved from Washington, and I'm not a mormon. I've been outfitting in Utah since 1997 and it seems most of the people in Utah love their state and probably don't want it to change to the way it sounds like the author would prefer after reading through his comments. In Washington Democrats control the politics, in Utah it's Republican, anyone can probably find something they don't like in any state, but I can say I like most of the politics in Utah. I also must say that Peay, Benson, and the Utah legislature have been fairly effective at keeping wolves to a minimum in Utah. A lower percentage of the wildlife is eaten by wolves than in some other wolf infested states. That means more wildlife is available for hunters.

This is just my opinion for what it's worth, I know we all have different views.

Well stated Bearpaw - you've summed up Utah quite accurately.  I agree that article has several biases I don't agree with, but does bring up some good points.  I'm not sure that I like the legislature overriding the DWR on game management decisions, especially in a state where there is no conflict of interest control.  Also, while we may applaud the wolf management approach, is it not fair to ask what happened to the $300,000 that was wrangled out of the state? As you stated, Utah can do what they want with their permits I just don't want to see Washington send any of ours down to that program.  I was born and raised in that state, still have most of my family there and still go down there hunting every year.  Love the state, but I know all too well how politics work there and their reputation for shenanigans is well deserved.  I, along with many others, would like to see a better accounting of the funds SFW generates along with a statement showing how much the directors and staff pay themselves to disburse these funds. 

[bearpaw]

I support the Mule deer foundation and any other group that supports recovery, habit etc....I just don't trust WDFW if they where approached by a large group like this, "Hey, we hear you have a couple of units that produce big mule deer. How's about you shut them down for OTC guys and we auction off premium tags for it. We will give you 90%  of the take".....

I'm not against guys spending their money like this, it is their money. I've just watched over the years how people spending big money on these hunts seems to have a ripple affect. When they find out people are willing to pay a certain amount for X..the price of X is going to go up.  Pretty soon the price of X is only attainable by a small amount of the population. 

I don't know of any unit in Utah that was closed down and all the tags made into auction tags. If you are referring to Antelope Island you need to know the whole story. That is a state park, there wasn't any open public hunting. The legislature approved a handful of tags which has produced 1.4 million for maintaining the island plus they are moving deer from the island to other areas. In the article it says they have only used 1/3 of the revenue and the legislature may consider using dollars in other places to benefit wildlife.

I doubt anyone would ever approach WDFW and ask them to make all permits in any existing hunt unit auction permits. I think every hunter in the state would oppose that!

WA does have raffle tags available all around the state that anyone can buy tickets to enter and I think there is 1 auction tag for each specie around the state. Funds from those tags help support far more wildlife than the few animals that are killed by those tag holders.

I understand there are differing opinions, but it's important to use accurate info to support opinions.

I don't disagree, and understand the logistics as they pertain to that island. But when states see that kind of coin being spent? I just don't know.. Do you feel WDFW is more interested in wildlife management or money? Honestly sometimes I don't know, which is what scares me.

No doubt they all have a keen eye for dollars, but money is necessary.

[bearpaw]

Im all for conservation but geez..thats crazy to spend that much on a tag. My biggest fear is that in the long run really good mule deer hunts are going to become a rich mans game. How long before prime hunts in all the western states become auction tags.

Good for him if he can swing that kind of coin, but I just don't get it.

If Sportsman for fish and wildlife have their way, it won't be long.  They honestly seem to think that the states should not be giving away cheaply (i.e. drawings or raffles) permits that can obviously be sold for huge amounts.  They would like to privatize the permit system so that all premium permits go to the highest bidder and they would also like to establish more areas that are off-limits to the average hunter so that more valuable permits could be generated to hunt in that area.  Heck of a plan if you can get yourself in the position to be the broker on these permits (at a "small" percentage of the bid of course).

Do you have a link to some reliable information stating this?
FYI - Utah has increased the number of elk draw tags available to the public over the last few years!

I'm really lousy at posting links (frankly don't know how) but google Don Peay and read "Did Don Peay organization essentially buy Utah".  I'm not attacking the Mule Deer Foundation, but I think before you make a donation to any charity, especially a large donation, you research them carefully and see where your money is going.  As we all know, premium permits are big ticket items these days and a valuable asset to the states and sportsman of those states.  Very tempting to figure out a way to siphon off some of this money that should be going to the actual cause we're supporting.  If you agree with what his organizations are doing and how they're doing it, then I guess I'm ok with that.  Personally I'm not.

I read the story and I would say that it sounds like the author is opposed to limited-entry hunts, opposed to trophy management, opposed to Utah's effective effort to keep wolves under control, and even opposed to the Mormon church. The bottom line is that mormons are the majority in Utah so they are going to make the rules. If a person can't get along with mormons there are 49 other states to live or visit!

SFFW has a huge following in Utah, in short, they are doing what many hunters who live there seem to prefer. Utah has a thriving economy yet wildlife abounds in remote areas, in agricultural areas, and in the middle of oil and gas exploration! There are world class hunting opportunities all over the state and many areas have over the counter tags for anyone who wants to hunt. There are 30"+ mule deer available by walking right out of the city limits of most cities all along the Wasatch front.

Utah also has probably the least expensive non-resident licenses and tags of any western state yet offers hunters some of the highest quality hunting opportunities. There are draw areas and there are over the counter hunt areas. In draw areas tags are split 50/50 between random applicants and the applicants with the most points, I think it's the best point system of any state. Utah also has more youth hunting opportunities than almost any other state. If Utahans didn't like SFFW I doubt the SFFW banquets would be so well attended.

Utah is one of the states I would move to if I moved from Washington, and I'm not a mormon. I've been outfitting in Utah since 1997 and it seems most of the people in Utah love their state and probably don't want it to change to the way it sounds like the author would prefer after reading through his comments. In Washington Democrats control the politics, in Utah it's Republican, anyone can probably find something they don't like in any state, but I can say I like most of the politics in Utah. I also must say that Peay, Benson, and the Utah legislature have been fairly effective at keeping wolves to a minimum in Utah. A lower percentage of the wildlife is eaten by wolves than in some other wolf infested states. That means more wildlife is available for hunters.

This is just my opinion for what it's worth, I know we all have different views.

Well stated Bearpaw - you've summed up Utah quite accurately.  I agree that article has several biases I don't agree with, but does bring up some good points.  I'm not sure that I like the legislature overriding the DWR on game management decisions, especially in a state where there is no conflict of interest control.  Also, while we may applaud the wolf management approach, is it not fair to ask what happened to the $300,000 that was wrangled out of the state? As you stated, Utah can do what they want with their permits I just don't want to see Washington send any of ours down to that program.  I was born and raised in that state, still have most of my family there and still go down there hunting every year.  Love the state, but I know all too well how politics work there and their reputation for shenanigans is well deserved.  I, along with many others, would like to see a better accounting of the funds SFW generates along with a statement showing how much the directors and staff pay themselves to disburse these funds.

I agree, it seems they would come up with better oversight. I imagine over time and especially as issues like this arise, that oversight will be improved.

[MuleDeer]

Proceeds have to go to the island.  (keep in mind that's the proceeds - 90% of which go to the island and proceeds are after the other expenses.)  MDF chapters in Utah are all run by the same people who are in involved with SFW and these are not unpaid positions. You really should do some research on that whole intertwined spider web, likely to shock you.

It's dangerous to assume things when you don't bother to check the facts.  MDF and SFW have ONE relationship...putting on the expo each year.  Other than that, the two foundations have no business partnership at all, and many MDF members want it no other way.  As for MDF chapters being run by SFW employees?  Totally false again.  Every chapter of MDF is run by volunteers, and always will be.
For the Antelope Island tag, and many other tags sold at the expo, there is a split of the 10% admin funds between MDF and SFW.  Where does the 5% go thru MDF?  Into funding the expo, which has a very hefty pricetag for 4 days in the Salt Palace.  I would guess SFW's part goes to the same, but I don't know.
As for SFW and Don Peay, I'm not really at all involved with them, so don't know a lot about them.  I DO know that Don Peay is now only the founder and consultant to SFW, no longer an administrative head or position.
Answers to where the dollars are spent that MDF receives off of tag sales in different states?  Simply go to muledeer.org and look at our 990s they are posted for every year, and it will show you where EVERY CENT of MDF revenue gets spent, including salaries, advertising, banquet administration (merchandise and advertising), habitat, educational programs, etc.  MDF is not hiding anything from anyone; just do some research and find out for yourself rather than depending on the assumptions of others who don't know.
How does Washington benefit from all those tag sales in Utah?  Because so much is available for use on the ground in Utah for habitat work because of the tag sales, we get to use all of the Utah MDF chapters' revenue from their banquets in all other western states.  So, when a chapter is requesting funding for a project, we can also request "national" dollars to help supplement our projects...those "national" dollars come from Utah chapter banquets and also from funding received from national tag sales (the 10%) at times.
This time of year I am on the road a ton, and so, not on here as much as I'd like, but I am always available to answer questions.  So please, email, call or text me if you would like to know about something MDF is doing or where our money goes, rather than post more conjecture, accusations, assumptions, or whatever it is you would like to call it, thereby causing more confusion to those who would actually like to know the truth.  Wouldn't it be great if we only dealt with facts on this forum, rather than all the conspiracies generated by lack of knowledge?
Dan McKinley
509-995-0819
dan@muledeer.org

[jackelope]

Thanks for that, Dan. Great information.

[trophyhunt]

For the record I have no problem with the money raised for this hunt.  But this island hunt seems more like an unfenced farm hunt to me than anything, great deer for sure but you see amazing elk in a fenced areas as well. 

[Soady]

For the record I have no problem with the money raised for this hunt.  But this island hunt seems more like an unfenced farm hunt to me than anything, great deer for sure but you see amazing elk in a fenced areas as well.

Pretty much like you stated so why all the ruffled feathers over a farm hunt on a state resource controlled hunt in a state park for a mere 390k? If that state wants to conserve in that manner what effect does it have on you as citizen of this state?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56012807-78/wildlife-utah-sfw-deer.html.csp

[Sitka_Blacktail]

In cae you have any questions about how Peay feels about the general public's right to hunt.........

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/conservationist/2012/03/group-founder-declares-north-american-hunting-model-%E2%80%9Csocialism%E2%80%9D

Money quotes

" In the Anchorage Daily News story, Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife founder Don Peay says that it’s time to “revisit” the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource. "

"Peay described that egalitarian doctrine, found in Alaska's state constitution and laws throughout the West, as "socialism." It offers no economic incentive for landowners to kill predators, improve big game habitat and even provide food and water for target species."

[baldopepper]

Kind of makes you wonder what would happen if the Timber Interests in this state bought into his ideas.  Again, I would encourage everyone to indeed check the facts on any and all groups before joining or donating.  I applaud MDF for making their 990's readily available and would encourage everyone to download and read carefully.  If I have made the mistake of assuming guilt by association, I apologize.  Most of us have comparatively limited funds to help those organizations that promote a sport we love and it is wise to make sure they are being used wisely. Investigate and make your own decisions.

[MuleDeer]

Kind of makes you wonder what would happen if the Timber Interests in this state bought into his ideas.  Again, I would encourage everyone to indeed check the facts on any and all groups before joining or donating.  I applaud MDF for making their 990's readily available and would encourage everyone to download and read carefully.  If I have made the mistake of assuming guilt by association, I apologize.  Most of us have comparatively limited funds to help those organizations that promote a sport we love and it is wise to make sure they are being used wisely. Investigate and make your own decisions.

I agree with you 100%!  I encourage everyone to do the research and make sure that your dollars are going where you think they are.  This is the sole reason I work so hard with the local chapters to make sure they do great things both locally and statewide with the funds they raise: to make a difference.  As you all know, extra dollars are getting harder and harder to come by, so folks are getting more picky with their spending.  MDF chapters put more money locally on the ground these days than most groups, and we plan on keeping the funding local like that.
Here's some numbers to help you all see where we put our money.

PROJECT FUNDING IN WA STATE SINCE 2012
$3,500   Fence maintenance on Highway 97A near Wenatchee
$1,500   Archery supplies for Pioneer Middle School in Wenatchee
$5800   Black-Tailed deer decoys WA Fish and Wildlife for anti-poaching
$500           Video camera to assist in anti poaching WA Fish and Wildlife
$5500   Aerial weed treatment in Pomeroy, WA
$1000   Bitter brush to rehab habitat in Douglas and Lincoln County
$2000   Habitat improvement near Cheney, WA.
$2000   Habitat improvement/bitter brush planting in Douglas County, WA
$14,250   Trap and transplant of Mule Deer in Republic, WA
$1000   Trail cams for anti poaching near Spokane, WA
$6444   Prescribed burn trailer for WDFW
$1,000   HD camera to aid in documenting MDF projects for WDFW
$1000   WDFW tranquilizer rifle for trap and transplant
$8500   Aerial deer survey of Snake River within Wind Power Range
$3000   Browse planting in Douglas County
$2650   Apache Pass ESR
$6000   Caraco Creek enhancement
$1955   Black bear decoy for WDFW law enforcement
$2100   Mule deer decoy for WDFW law enforcement
$540           Road signage in Okanogan County
$3207   Taylor Bridge fire restoration in Kittitas County
$1452   (3) Metal detectors for WDFW law enforcement
$5855   Black tail fawn survival study in SW WA
$2000   Carter Mt. trailhead access in Okanogan County
$2100   Wolf/Coyote predation study in North Central WA
$715           Aspen Fencing Project in Kittitas County
$1491     Trailcams  help in poaching cases in Western WA
$2121     Blacktail Decoy for NW WA

Total Chapter Rewards Earned since 2012:       $75,481.45
Total Spent in WA Since 2012:                  $115,280.00
Total Chapter Rewards Remaining to be Spent:    $30,260.32

As you can see, we have spent more than the Chapter Rewards earned, and still have over $30K to spend.  This is due to National $$ that we ask for and are granted.  It shows that it is always worth it to ask for those extra $$.  With these numbers, it is great that we can say that MDF has put almost 150% of our earned Chapter Rewards on the ground these last 3 years!
If there is a project that you know of locally that is not listed here, please let me know and I will add it in to this list.  I don’t want to miss anything, since we will be able to use this information when talking to the public about MDF.

Again, I would love the chance to meet any one of you as I travel around the state, sit down over coffee or a Coke, and talk about ideas of what we need to do for deer in your area.  I cover a lot of ground, but it's always fun to meet someone with the same passion and learn from you all.  Send me a note and I'll let you know if I'm in your area and we can meet up.  I'm very proud of what the MDF and our volunteers are doing in WA, and I'm always glad when I get the chance to brag on all the good things the chapters are doing!

[MuleDeer]

Another update on what's on the burners right now:
Swanson Lakes area canola planting (for cover and forage, non-harvest), to begin a rotational forage planting
Lincoln County shrub and forb replanting project for winter cover
Lincoln County Conservation Easement proposal (@ 3,000 acres)
Entiat winter range habitat improvement project
Tracy Hill Burn and Seed Habitat Improvement project
Whitman County Shrub habitat improvement
Garfield County Yellow Star Thistle eradication project
Asotin County Mediterranean Sage eradication
Purchase of 2 more robotic mule deer decoys for Okanogan and Spokane Counties

These projects are in the proposal stages right now, and will most likely all be funded over this next year.  On top of these is the looming project work we have coming up in Okanogan County, as well as a newly proposed fence removal project in the Entiat area, Aspen enclosure protection project and research into fawn survival in Stevens County, and more coming in all the time.  THIS is why I love working for MDF: seeing the money go on the ground for our Mule Deer and Black tail Deer!  And getting to work with awesome volunteers all over this region is a great bonus, seeing the difference we can help make!
Again, I agree with the others here saying to do your research and make wise decisions with where you put your hard-earned money.  I know your passions are important to you and that you all care about our deer herds; that's why we go to great measures to ensure your dollars go to work for you, and love it when you want to be involved with the projects as well.  There's nothing more satisfying that to be part of a project that is going to help increase our deer herds...something to involve your kids in and be proud of being a part of.

[baldopepper]

Those are certainly worthwhile projects and great to see.  Just for a little more clarification, how does the chapter reward program work?  As an example, if a chapter fund raiser grosses $100,000 what would be the chapter reward?  Do you know how much fund raisers in Washington have generated since 1912?   It's really encouraging to see how open you and your group are and to see the work you are doing.

[MuleDeer]

A brief description of how the Chapter Rewards process works.  First there are 3 numbers that are important to calculate them: Gross Revenue, Net Revenue, and Net/Net Revenue.  Gross and Net are self explanatory.  Net/Net is the total Net dollars after membership funds have been removed (membership dollars are for admin, paying the bills, putting out the magazine, etc)
So the CR is a sliding scale based on your Net/Gross ratio, and the chapter gets up to 30% of those Net/Net $$ ear-marked specifically for their use for projects.  As and example, if a chapter grossed $100,000 (I can still dream), and they Netted $65,000, then their Net/Gross ration would be 65%.  Let's say there are $10,000 in memberships in there, so the Net/Net is now $55,000.  The chapter would have 30% of that, or $16,500 set aside ONLY for them and their projects.  No one else can use this money, unless they give it to another chapter, project or state.  As you can see from what I posted, there is more available than just the Chapter Rewards to a chapter.  This is where the other 70% of the Net/Net $$ come in.  Those funds are diverted into administrative costs if needed (more membership $$ means more $$ on the ground and less spent to run the business), and a number of other budgets, such as our educational programs, MULEY (youth) Program, support of the shooting sports, large state projects, national funds available for bigger projects, salaries for field staff, etc.  For details of exactly where, I would suggest you read the 990 on our website.  Not fun reading, but it will tell you where every cent goes that we generate through our fundraising.
One of the other funding sources that not many chapters take advantage of is the Conservation Partnership Program.  In this case, an individual or company may want to donate a larger sum of money, with the restriction that it is only spent on a specific project, area, or state.  It can be restricted down to a single project, or left broader, like our work in the Okanogan will be for fire rehab.  In that case, MDF can keep 10% for admin purposes, but in all the Partnerships we have done here, the office has kept 0%.  Similar to how the national tag sales goes, but on a much smaller scale, usually.
The Chapter Rewards system always brings up the question of why the chapter gets to keep "so little" (30%), but that is why I put together and share the spending we have done in the state over the last 3 years...to show there is more than just that 30% that is available.  This relates back to a previous post where I described how the funds raised in Utah are shared among the other states, because they put over $1 million on the ground each year for habitat from the tag sales.
Here's the totals that we raised in WA since 2013:
Gross Dollars: $433,520
Net Dollars: $248,121
Net/Net Dollars: $209,186
Tracking down the numbers from 2012, which was before I came on board.  The totals that year were substantially less, as we are growing every year.
What that does show is that, out of $209,186 of Net/Net, the Chapter Rewards were $54,503.  From the math, that would mean 2012 generated $20,978 in Chapter Rewards.
My primary job is as a fundraiser with the chapters, and the most important part of that (in my opinion) is to help them be as efficient as possible.  More efficiency means more dollars going to the ground, instead of paying expenses of putting on a banquet.  That's why you would hear chapters asking for donations, pushing more memberships, and getting items "underwritten" for their banquets.  All of those things make us a more efficient machine, enabling us to do more work for the deer.  I think if you look, MDF would rank as one of the most stream-lined conservation groups out there: we don't have a lot of expenses that bleed the funds, so we can put more on the ground. 
Let me know if I can answer anything else, and I'll be happy to provide the info.  Thanks for asking!