Ethical shooting

[WapitiTalk1]

  A arrow flying 300 ft/sec and an elk walking 4 mph interact like this:

20 yds: .2 sec to impact, elk has moved 14 inches
40 yds:  .4 sec to impact, elk has moved 28 inches
80 yds:  .8 sec to impact, elk has moved 56 inches.

If you factor in .2 seconds of time between your brain telling your finger to release the trigger and the arrow getting up to speed, then the distance the elk travels increases accordingly. .2 seconds is not far off for that process. 

Definitely good food for thought Shawn!  I had an incident occur around 10 or 12 years ago that really sealed the deal for me on just how a seemingly slam dunk shot perhaps can morph into something else quite unexpectedly.  A buddy and I were hunting a wilderness area in WA when we were accosted by a very, very upset bull.  We headed to a long, flat, ridge spot we suspected may hold elk via a hiker access trail well before daylight.  After we left the trail, we nugged our way up the steep timbered hill side, then came to a stop behind a rock outcropping on the edge of where the ridge transitioned to the hill side before we moved on to see if anybody was home.  We encountered some fresh sign on the hillside but nothing to write home about. Once shooting light was adequate, we moved up and around the outcropping and I immediately set Joe up for an early morning cold calling session.  Well, unbeknownst to us, our quiet morning of hunting was about to get dialed up to level 10!  Stomp, stomp, stomp, rake, rake, rake… followed by a loud advertising bugle made Joe look back at me like I was crazy (he was only on his second year of this calling elk thing).   The bull in front and just below us in a narrowish timbered draw (probably 70 yards) absolutely came unglued and ran directly at Joe who I had set up off to the side and downwind from me.  He came in so fast (and screaming obscenities) that neither Joe nor I could draw and attempt a shot.   He hung up for just seconds before he winded (or saw; not sure as it was all so quick) us and back he went towards his cows (found out later that this nice little 6 point had a handful of girls who he was quite fond of).  I signaled for Joe to come to me, moved about 60 yards and set up again.  Before I made a peep, the bull screamed back a “where the hell are you” bugle.  He was met with silence and I motioned for Joe to start working towards the bull.  I then ran back up the hill (crashing everything I could with my big old feet) stopped, and screamed back a challenge with a handful of chuckles.. Umm, here he came again!  This time, Joe drew back but couldn’t get a shot as the bull hung up with his vitals covered. Crap!  OK, I motioned to Joe to sweep to his left (to keep the wind in his favor) and I did the same above him.  Now I was set up danger close to a small meadow (don’t like to try to call elk through openings for obvious reasons).  The bull remained vocal below us but a bit farther away (perhaps 80ish yards) trying to keep our location.  OK, one more time.  I made eye contact with Joe, motioned I was gonna start calling and he needed to move forward towards the vocal bull if the bull wasn’t gonna move towards us again.  What happened next shows you just how crazy a love crazed herd bull can be.  I smashed up some brush with my feet, screamed at the bull and chuckled at his cows.  The bull was livid!!!  He moved quickly to his right/my left, circled downwind below Joe, broke into the small meadow and came almost straight at me.  I drew right as he slowed down, less than 20 yards away, as he moved past a scraggly little pine maybe 6 feet tall.  I gave a loud cow call and the bull put on the brakes, stopped broadside at chip shot range and I touched off the 135 grain Wasp tipped GGII 2219 out of my 72 LB Darton Viper (my old setup, shooting fingers).  At the exact moment I shot, the bull took one long stride forward to clear a small log he was straddling.  In that split second, my POI changed from the V behind his front leg to the front part of his right rear hind quarter.. WHUMP!  The bull bolted straight away, circled back to the right, rejoined his group, and bugled no less than 5 times as he moved the herd away and down over the side into a deep canyon.  I found the arrow rubbed off in the brush, intact, less than 100 yards away.  That bull was sore for awhile but I’m sure he lived on.
 
RadSav offered that "You can train yourself to shoot at moving animals with a great deal of accuracy, but it is impossible to train yourself to read the direction and speed in which an animal will jump the string."  So true! 

[Gringo31]

Other thread (I don't recall) saying anything about a walking elk....   

[Shawn Ryan]

Other thread (I don't recall) saying anything about a walking elk....   

Phantom's scenario "B" hypothesizes a nervous elk who "perhaps is walking by."  However, I only used the 4 mph walking elk as an illustration for comparison.  Whether the elk is nervous and about to bolt or is already walking, it is important to consider the physics of what is taking place as the arrow is in flight.  Its easy to think that an elk can't move any distance that matters while the arrow is in flight. I was pointing out the fallacy of that thinking. I used to think that way and I learned the hard way that I was wrong.

I've shot at moving elk (killed and missed). I've had elk jump the string/duck (missed twice that I remember). I've had an elk at 20 yards, head down, and drinking, take that unanticipated step with one leg between arrow release and hit: with a really bad result. 

[Fullabull]

That is why I stated, you need to make a good call to stop him and if he does not stop, NO shot

[coachcw]

So I've shot quite a few elk with a bow a few walking at very close range , I can say that I have cow called probably ten to fifteen and shot them not one jumped the string every time I was at full draw and shot the moment they stopped . I have had one bull jump string and whirl right as I shot ending in a clean miss (45 yards ) .I have shot at two elk moving faster than a walk one I led to far and bounced it of her chest at twenty yards the other was a 370 class bull at 35 he made it strait into my freezer through both lungs . oh I have missed but typically miss guessing the distance . the highest percentage of kill and recovery have been frontal 3/3. I have shot two in the neck one was lost and a grizz got the other, plenty through the lungs (high percentage and good blood . one in the rear hip that absolutely took her down . I have lost a couple that I really felt where solid shots , distance really hasn't been the factor . if a animal is at rest and a guy can place the arrow , the equipment will have the energy to penetrate. there is so much that goes into ethical shots other than distance , ie good broadheads , mind set , conditioning , weather conditions , alertness of animal ec. to tie ethics to yardage is just way to broad of spectrum . I lost a elk from a 15 yard shot once and killed a bull at 85 with one clean shot so distance just doesn't make sense to me since every encounter is different , though at distance I will only take a broadside shot . the other thing is I always try and guess on the short side so if I miss low.

[RadSav]

At the exact moment I shot, the bull took one long stride forward to clear a small log he was straddling.  In that split second, my POI changed from the V behind his front leg to the front part of his right rear hind quarter..

I shot at a pig running away from me at 40 yards.  I yanked the trigger like an epileptic at a strobe light convention!  As the arrow covered the first ten yards I could easily see my arrow was going to miss him by 3 yards to the right.   That is when he decided to head east instead of his first thought which was to head north.  That put the arrow dead center through the arch!  He abruptly stopped to eat some dirt about 20 yards later   Sometimes you do your best and still miss.  Sometimes you do your worst and come out victorious!  That's life / That's hunting!

[kentrek]

   Sometimes you do your worst and come out victorious!  That's life / That's hunting!

reminds me of Fred bears tiger hunt in India....his best and worst shot


Good conversation   

I wonder how il respond to this ethical question in another 30-40 years...my guess is different

[RadSav]

reminds me of Fred bears tiger hunt in India....his best and worst shot

Love that story!