Stihl Warranty????

[CarbonHunter]

Has anyone on here ever had a stihl tool that they had to take back on warranty?  If you did, how did it go?

I bought a BG 86 blower last month and it seized up after 3 weeks. I was running it full speed and it died, so I restarted it and it ran for about 30 seconds and died again. It did that twice before it locked up so that I couldn't even pull the cord.

So I took it back to the dealer where I got it from and they said it had moisture in the gas tank and had "cylinder wash down."  They said it would not be covered. In the time I had it I mixed 2 gallons of 50:1 gas and ran most of it through my chainsaws. There is no issues with my saws. Stihl claims that running gas with water in it can corrode an engine overtime and can lead to engine failure.

Has anyone ever seen this happen in 3 weeks with 6-10 tanks of fuel being ran through it?

In addition, after looking at the box of parts the stihl dealer returned to me I noticed there is a ball bearing implanted into the spark plug. To my knowledge that ball bearing would have had to come from the lower end of the engine. Does anybody think it is possible for a bearing to fail due to moisture in the fuel without the engine showing other signs of corrosion first? 

Is anyone else having issues with new stihl products now that they aren't made in Germany?

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

Haven't had any issues like this with my Sthil equipment. Might be a good question to ask on Arborsite.com...

[Special T]

Lots of companies or thier representatives are failing on thier reputations. 

[CarbonHunter]

This is the first issue I have had with stihl. The rest of my stihl equipment was made in Germany and it is giving me no grief.

Up until last month I swore by stihl but after reading the arborist sites they have been saying for a few years that the carbs are weak and they are made in China. I'm starting to wonder if stihl is selling out and going the way of Homelite. 

[Buckmark]

Something sounds fishy to me....water in fuel can be a problem but you have been runnning thru it fast and its not been sitting for months.
I would get ahold of/send a PM to  hntrspud on here and tell him whats going on, he may be able to help you out...

[300rum]

Gasoline these days is absolutely horrible on small engines.  I know that by using Stihl brand pre-mix fuel for my saw the warranty increased by a year (Or maybe even more, I can't remember exactly).  I just go with their pre-mixed fuel.  I don't burn a lot of fuel in my saw anyway and the stuff in the can is good for a long, long time.

I think if we could get rid of the emission junk that the government put on the saws/small engines and could (easily) get real gas, there would be a lot of small engines that would last longer and run better.     

[timberfaller]

   If you noticed before the thing froze up on you, a increase in RPM it could be from a air leak.  They had that problem back a few years.   

The air leak would cause a quick increase of RPM's,  then the bottom bearings would go.   Had one falling saw do that twice on me.   Stihl rebuilt it the first time and I didn't give them a second chance at it!!!  Air leaks can come from various places though.

If its only three weeks old, your going to have to fight them to honor their warranty.   They don't like giving $$$$$ back! 

[L8NITE]

Bought a new Stihl weedeater last summer been in the shop three times since...so far not impressed! Have older stihl saw and never had any issues now I am beginning to wonder!!! They told me it was bad gas the last time i took it in...crazy thing is the gas was only three days "old".  Have an old echo weedeater that I bought 18 years ago...never been to the shop. Thought maybe I had gotten a lemon but sounds if stihl is going down hill?

[Jingles]

Quit dealing with the local rep/dealer and contact national HQ

[CarbonHunter]

I bought it in Auburn and took it there for the warranty work and after they rejected it I went to Enumclaw to ask there opinion. His mechanic is unavailable for a few weeks but he said he would contact the local stihl rep and see if they are seeing this issue. He says he can't do a lot after one dealer says water in the fuel and that I would have to prove to stihl that there is a manufacture defect in order to get them to actually warranty it.  He did say that it would be hard to believe that moisture in the fuel caused failure after 3 weeks but if stihl sees "water in fuel" they will not warranty.

With the ethanol in fuel today you could probably get almost any fuel to test positive for water. If it doesn't the water bottle on his work bench will make sure it does and his job is done...

[BigGoonTuna]

did you use fresh mix, or is it something you've had around?  stihl recommends not using anything over 30 days old in their equipment(obviously if you've got good E0 gas you can stretch that out).  the ethanol tainted fuel we have around mostly has a very short shelf life before it starts causing a lot of trouble.

however, 3 weeks is an incredibly short time to blow something up in, unless you straight gassed it.  i would try to find a different dealer and if that falls through, call stihl northwest and ask to talk to JD.  odds are, he'll have the shop send it in for analysis and more than likely good will warranty the parts and labor(on something like a BG86, you should get a new unit).

i know a thing or two, i used to be the mechanic for a stihl shop in hoquiam...

[netcoyote]

You should not be using ethanol tainted gas in ANY small gas engine. There are a few gas stations scattered around that supply ethanol free premium gas that is the best fuel to use in these engines. There are a few web sites that keep up-to-date listings of these stations.
http://www.buyrealgas.com/Washington.html
I talked to a Stihl/John Deere dealer one time about this and it is a major headache for all these small engine dealers. Good for their service departments but they really have to be on their toes to only use good ethanol-free gas and keep it fresh for their in-stock machines. That dealer was the one that tipped me off to the ethanol free stations.

[Firedogg]

 We were getting "real gas" for all our fire department small tools but recently switched over to getting the Stihl pre-mixed fuel. There were just too many problems with bad gas/mixes.

  I go out to Elbe to fill my cans with real gas for my mowers, saws and generator.

[netcoyote]

We were getting "real gas" for all our fire department small tools but recently switched over to getting the Stihl pre-mixed fuel. There were just too many problems with bad gas/mixes.

  I go out to Elbe to fill my cans with real gas for my mowers, saws and generator.

The Mini-Market on South Hill has it also, if that might be closer for you. That's where I get my small engine fuel.

[KFhunter]

don't run 50/1

I can pretty well guarantee you're engine would still be running fine if you mixed 32/1 or even 40/1.  Cylinder wash was probably from too much ethanol and very little lubricant. 

What could happen if you run more oil?  Change the spark plug a bit more frequently, tiny bit more carbon in the muffler - that's it.  Muffler is easy to clean out and spark plugs are cheap.   If you're an eco warrior type the added carbon you add to the air by using more oil in your gas is offset by not having to mine more minerals for pistons, heads and other engine metal parts and since most of these things are junked when they break there's less in the landfill and less plastic to make using petro-products



50/1 is EPA mandated crap, extend the life of your 2 cycles by running no less than 40/1 even with non-ethanol.  With ethanol fuel I dang sure wouldn't go less oil than 40/1,  I usually richen it up a bit more with ethanol fuel and don't let it sit in the jug or especially the engine tank. 

Is there any possibility you used an E15 pump?

Small engine manufacturers are caught between a rock and a hard place, EPA forces them to run the bleeding edge of fuel lubricity vs emissions.  weed whackers, chain saws need to be light weight enough to pack around and meet a price point, tough to put e-tec type technology in such a small engine and stay within those parameters.   So help them out and run richer fuel, add a stich more oil and it'll run much longer for you.

[CarbonHunter]

They said my mix was correct. (50:1) and it had only been mixed for 1 week. Both gallons of mixed gas that I ran through my machines were mixed right before I started work for the weekend and most of those 2 gallons went in my MS460 and my 036 pro and no issues with those saws.

My main issue is why will the old saws run fine on my fuel but a new one throws a bearing in 3 weeks. There is only slight damage to the piston and the shop didn't even remove the piston to inspect where the bearing came from.

[CarbonHunter]

What does everyone else think about running at 40:1? Besides shortening the life of a spark plug is there anything else that would be affected?  Would it bog down or clog the carb?

Up in Enumclaw JD is the guy that they said they would call for me. If I get out of work early enough today I will check in with them and see what he said.

[b23]

If it's apart still, could you post some pictures of the internals with the head off?  Two strokes can be very "telling" by how they look after you've squeaked the motor.

[wildweeds]

Stihls ain't what they used to be IMO,the newer things I've bought a saw and weedwhacker have been nothing but problematic junk.I had an old 056 Pro from the 70's that spit the bit on me a few years back and it served me quite well for over 20 years,never had a lick of problem with it in all that time and then one day it was over,carb trouble whose parts had been obsolete for years.I buy non ethanol fuel for all my two stroke and yard equipment,such as mower and edger.It's a go to thing to blame the ethanol,but sometimes I think its just a patsy for substandard parts made by the lowest bidder in a third world country.... getting ready for carb #3 on the FS90 weedwhacker even though I use the super premium gas and prep it for winter by running it dry and choking it out with fogging oil treatment,it continues to have problems every couple years.Stihl is currently on my don't buy anymore of list.

[ICEMAN]

What does everyone else think about running at 40:1? Besides shortening the life of a spark plug is there anything else that would be affected?  Would it bog down or clog the carb?

Up in Enumclaw JD is the guy that they said they would call for me. If I get out of work early enough today I will check in with them and see what he said.

We run at least 40:1 or thicker in our tools. I love the smell of extra oil fumes in the morning... Have never smoked a stihl or other small engine. 

[Gobble Doc]

It seems bogus that a small engine should fail after 2 tanks of gas, even if the gas contains some ethanol.  Does the owner's manual explicitly say to use non-ethanol gas?  I have a bunch of 2-stroke motors, including a Stihl chainsaw, and I always go to the co-op to get the non-ethanol gas for them and my outboard.  I understand that over time the ethanol causes problems.  But still, I don't buy that 2 tanks of gas should have caused a complete trashing of the new piece of equipment.  Bad news for Stihl.   I think something else broke and they are blaming the gas to get off the hook. 

[ICEMAN]

It seems bogus that a small engine should fail after 2 tanks of gas, even if the gas contains some ethanol.  Does the owner's manual explicitly say to use non-ethanol gas?  I have a bunch of 2-stroke motors, including a Stihl chainsaw, and I always go to the co-op to get the non-ethanol gas for them and my outboard.  I understand that over time the ethanol causes problems.  But still, I don't buy that 2 tanks of gas should have caused a complete trashing of the new piece of equipment.  Bad news for Stihl.   I think something else broke and they are blaming the gas to get off the hook. 

I agree. too soon of a failure with even a fresh tank of crappy gas.

[BigGoonTuna]

don't run 50/1

I can pretty well guarantee you're engine would still be running fine if you mixed 32/1 or even 40/1.  Cylinder wash was probably from too much ethanol and very little lubricant. 

that's BS, you'd never smoke an engine on 50/1 and have it live on 40/1 gas, much less within a few weeks.  using more oil and less gas actually results in a LEANER mix, and that's bad news for an engine with little adjustment(that's my bone to pick with the EPA).  you can find the tools to use on some carb adjusters online, but it's actually illegal to own them if you aren't a commercial repair shop(not really enforced though).

when i was in the repair business, you know who had the least amount of issues with bad fuel?  professional loggers and other guys that used their equipment year-round, because they were constantly cycling new fuel through them.  that's the key.  most ran 50-1 fuel too.  the big problem with ethanol is when it sits, it attracts water and then falls out of the mix.  when it's being burned up quickly, it doesn't cause many problems.

[CarbonHunter]

I can't figure out how to upload a picture from an iPhone. Maybe if someone sends me their email I can email the photos to them and they can post them.

You can't see much damage to the piston because all they did was remove the exhaust to look at the piston. I took the carb off to get a better look at the Intake but there wasn't much damage there either. They never even tried to figure out where the bearing came from.

[Gobble Doc]

I might consider writing a letter to the main corporate office and cc the local business where you got the equipment.  Explain your problem and maybe they will give you some kind of compensation.  Not much to lose.  I still don't think something like this should break after only running a couple gallons of gas. 

[270Shooter]

I know for a fact that the shop I work at has given full warranty replacements for guys that bring in stuff that has taken a lot more abuse than your blower got. It should not have siezed up like that and I think that it is possible you got a bad apple. The guys at the first shop may have screwed you though because of the report they made on it. I'd for sure have those other guys call jd and see what he says, I know the guys at the shop I work at have called him on some questionable warranty claims and unless it is obviously from lack of care we usually end up warranting it. Also, always run 50:1 in all stihl equiptment, that is the #1 issue we get with people bring in equiptment saying it won't run or doesn't have power, too much oil in their mixture.

[follow maggie]

I bought a stihl bg86 last summer and had nothing but trouble with it. It eras next to impossible to start and ran poorly when it did finally start. After two days I threw it away and bought another echo.

[CarbonHunter]

I think got the picture thing figured out.

[CarbonHunter]

Let me know what you mechanics think of the pictures.  I don't see where there is enough damage on the piston to warrant "cylinder wash down" but I'm not a mechanic. 

What about the bearing in the sparkplug? Any ideas as to where it came from?

[BigGoonTuna]

that damage doesn't look like a typical seizure at all.  it's hard to tell exactly what happened with the cylinder still on the case, but it looks to me like something got into the engine that shouldn't have.  it doesn't bear the marks of a seizure due to heat or lean mixture at all, since the piston in the exhaust port is pristine looking, and you've got scoring on the intake side.  a "normal" burnt up piston would be totally fried on the exhaust side.  perhaps a bearing let go or some foreign material got in through the carb?

i would absolutely seek a second opinion, sounds like the shop doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Griiz]

They always find an excuse not to cover engine issues in my experience.

[CarbonHunter]

Sorry I should of clarified it was seized when I took it in but it came out of the shop unseized. Maybe I should of said bound up or something. I could not pull the pull cord and turn the engine over.

[CarbonHunter]

There is an obvious bearing in the spark plug. So my question is: Is it possible for moisture in the fuel to cause a bearing to let go and travel to the spark plug without damage and other wear that is more consistent with cylinder was down?

Oh ya, and within 3 weeks and half a dozen tanks of fuel?

[j_h_nimrod]

Granted I have never worked on one of these engines, but I have tore into a number of other small engines and a lot of Stihls over the years. I am trying to figure out where that little bearing stuck in the plug came from and can't. That bearing is much smaller than any bearing I recall on even a 009 and the 086 blower has a larger engine than that. I know tech has change since most of the engines I am familiar with but I think identifying where that bearing originated is important. 

The older Stihl saws never had problems like this with water in the fuel. I worked on a project where we typically had lots of water in our fuel for numerous reasons and I got very proficient clearing carbs after a slug of H2O filled them up. We never had a failure like this.

Sounds like I wont be trading in my 036 Pro, 015AV, or 009L anytime soon and my next new saw probably won't be a Stihl. 

[netcoyote]

that damage doesn't look like a typical seizure at all.  it's hard to tell exactly what happened with the cylinder still on the case, but it looks to me like something got into the engine that shouldn't have.  it doesn't bear the marks of a seizure due to heat or lean mixture at all, since the piston in the exhaust port is pristine looking, and you've got scoring on the intake side.  a "normal" burnt up piston would be totally fried on the exhaust side.  perhaps a bearing let go or some foreign material got in through the carb?

i would absolutely seek a second opinion, sounds like the shop doesn't know what they're talking about.

I'm agreeing with Big Goon here. Something just doesn't smell right here. Teh key point is the ball in the spark plug. Only two explanations for that, that I can think of.

1. Bearing on crank or con rod had a partial failure and spit out a ball or more and then it got sucked up from the crankcase into the intake port and then may have caused a short in the plug.

2. The ball was a foreign object that got introduced during the manufacturing process. It was bouncing around inside the engine until it caused a failure. Could have been in the cylinder, the port, the crankcase or maybe even in the carb.

Seems like a bearing failure would have been catastrophic but it could have just spit out a bearing and then contained the rest of the bearings. I haven't torn one of these apart but seems to me the ones I have worked on have had roller bearings.

I'm leaning toward the foreign object theory.

[Gobble Doc]

 

[b23]

I take it the cylinder head was never removed or was it?  If it was, how did the top of the piston look and what did the dome of the cylinder head look like.  Did either look beat up at all?  You said it was locked up when you took it in to the shop but you could turn it over when you got it back, does it have compression and or will it start?  When you pull the cord and turn the motor over does it feel any different than before it locked up on you?  Did the shop that took it apart tell you what it would take to fix it?

The little piece of debris that's wedged in between the insulator and the shell is odd to me because the spark plug looks pristine except for that little piece wedged in there.  There doesn't appear to be a single mark on the plug anywhere.  Those little motors aren't very big but I'm sure the crank bearings are bigger than that.  Wrist pin bearing in one of those is probably pretty small but they're needle bearings not ball bearings.  The spark plug pic isn't in the greatest of focus so it's a little difficult to identify what that little piece is.

[CarbonHunter]

There's one other small ding on the lip of the plug. Here's a little better of a picture of the plug.

JD is out of his office until the 23rd so we will have to wait until next week to see what he says.

The cylinder head was never removed. The way you see it in the box is the way I got it back. I don't want to tear it down anymore and have stihl use that as the reason they won't warranty it.

[REHJWA]

tag

[BigGoonTuna]

that looks a lot like a detent ball.  too small to be from one of the bearings in the crankcase.  my theory is that it could have possibly been something that got loose during manufacturing, or come out from under the choke shaft somehow.

[CarbonHunter]

Well thanks to REHJWA I just got done meeting with a couple Stihl reps. They tore it the rest of the way down and sure enough they found a destroyed main bearing. They did not hesitate to warranty the blower and said there's no way I could of caused that to fail in 3 weeks.

I have to say Stihl truly stepped up for me and went out of their way to meet up with me and make it right. Probably because I posted on the internet but either way they made it right without any fight.

Cutter supply in Enumclaw also stepped up and reached out to Stihl on my behalf and they got back to me right after I got my new blower from Stihl. Even though I didn't even purchase the blower from them. It shows real character as to who the better dealers are and proves that all Stihl dealer are not equal. I've boughten from them in the past and from now on they are going to get all my business when it comes to my power equipment. If I lived in Yelm I would visit REHJWA but that is a long way to go for 2 stroke mix. 

The Stihl dealer that will never get any of my business again is Agrishop. They did me wrong on this deal and proved they didn't care by not doing a complete warranty inspection and completely getting the diagnosis wrong. I've spent more than 5k on equipment from Agrishop through the years and I feel they could of at least done a complete warranty inspection.

If anyone on here has had Agrishop tell them their equipment isn't covered by warranty I would get a second opinion. 

I would like to thank everyone else on here for their time and opinions as well. It gave me a lot to work with when it came to handling this situation.

If anyone out there has any issues like I ran into with a Stihl shoot me a message and I'll give you the contact info of the Stihl rep who help me. He said not to hesitate to call him if I have any other issues.

And yes. If this blower lasts more than 3 weeks I would but Stihl again.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Wish I knew then what I know now... Had an ms 209 saw that seized up after a year, was told it was not under warantee, and would cost almost as much as a new saw to fix...
I now own a Husqvarna