to spay or not to spay...

[KFhunter]

man,  I like this little dog.  Everything thing is there for a fantastic dog.  I spayed the last one not knowing, but then she wasn't half the dog this one is hunting wise.

but I don't plan to trial or compete her, work schedule won't allow that.   Suppose I could let someone else do it.   If she was less enthusiastic I'd spay her no question.

 

[KFhunter]

she's due for her 1st cycle any minute,  gotta make my mind up.   I don't like to spay after a cycle.

[Houndhunter]

Just curious why, if you spay a dog, do you like doing it before they get their first heat?

[WAcoyotehunter]

I NEVER spay a dog before her first heat.  They tend to stop maturing when spayed too early.  Actually, for hyper dogs or dogs that struggle with focus I have found that having one litter helps them a bunch.

If I'm going to cut a male dog I do it YOUNG.... I don't want them knowing they're a male.  I absolutely hate spending the first ten minutes of a hunt watching a dog pee on every bush and tire around    

It seems to work for me.  I'm curious what others have found.

[Cougar Gold]

By spaying before the first heat, you can almost guarantee no cancer in the mammary glands. Chance of cancer increases significantly if you don't.

[Happy Gilmore]

spaying after a couple cycles is recommended by pretty much everything, vet and person i've ever spoken with regarding the subject.

One primary function is the hormones produced help allow/influence completion of brain, muscle and skeletal development. Another is the full development of the female parts which can be slightly changed after the first cycle. Slight inverted vulvas are typically corrected after a heat cycle which reduces future chances of UTI infections. It is also said cancer development is statistically lower the longer you wait to spay. especially if done after a couple years but, before they get too old.

[Happy Gilmore]

By spaying before the first heat, you can almost guarantee no cancer in the mammary glands. Chance of cancer increases significantly if you don't.

I have never read that it is reduced cancer if done "Before" the first heat cycle. I have read that long term intact females do have a higher rate of mammary cancer and a few studies have suggested that early spaying helps reduce the risk, no eliminate it. I have also read a few studies which suggest that spaying early in their "later" years reduces chances the most. i.e.- 6-8 years old. This is also the time cancer is most likely to first show an appearance in most larger/working breeds.

[AspenBud]

By spaying before the first heat, you can almost guarantee no cancer in the mammary glands. Chance of cancer increases significantly if you don't.

I have never read that it is reduced cancer if done "Before" the first heat cycle. I have read that long term intact females do have a higher rate of mammary cancer and a few studies have suggested that early spaying helps reduce the risk, no eliminate it. I have also read a few studies which suggest that spaying early in their "later" years reduces chances the most. i.e.- 6-8 years old. This is also the time cancer is most likely to first show an appearance in most larger/working breeds.

I can tell you straight up that this is preached in every veterinary school these days. I can also say I think it's mainly pushed as a way to get people to spay their dogs so as to keep the dog population under control.

Frankly I'm not convinced either side it right. Spaying and neutering a dog is really a matter of what works best for a given owner, dog, and situation.

But in support of the argument for not spaying or neutering, it's my understanding that Europeans rarely have the procedures done, yet they don't have as big of a dog over population problem. I doubt they sweat mammary cancer much too.

[KFhunter]

hrm,  glad I started this thread.

The vets preach to bring the dog in before a cycle and if you don't they charge more money.  I don't know why they'd charge almost double if spayed after a cycle?   My main concern was cancer, last dog cost me a small fortune with cancer like problems.

I can certainly buy into the maturing thing

[ghosthunter]

I have had only two female labs. Both I had spayed at around 6 months or so. I just asked the vet what he thought and went with it. When I was looking for my first pup I talked to several guys who had been urged to let the dog have one litter.
Without exception each told me that they wished they had not because after the litters the dogs hunting drive was not there as it was before. They hunted but without the strong drive.

On the other hand I know many who spayed with no litter and there dogs hunt like crazy. Including the two I had.

Happy and Wild have way more experience than I do.  This is just what I experienced. 

[Ridgeratt]

I have let my females go through a heat cycle before if I choose to spay them. We did have a pup who ended up with staph infection as a pup. Wife nursed him back to health and told me if he made it she was going to keep him. He was cut before his nugget's dropped and always had a High pitched bark that sounded like finger nails on a chalk board. But it was the wife's dog. 

When I first saw the thread I figured it was a poll about Bobcat!!

[jetjockey]

I have had only two female labs. Both I had spayed at around 6 months or so. I just asked the vet what he thought and went with it. When I was looking for my first pup I talked to several guys who had been urged to let the dog have one litter.
Without exception each told me that they wished they had not because after the litters the dogs hunting drive was not there as it was before. They hunted but without the strong drive.

On the other hand I know many who spayed with no litter and there dogs hunt like crazy. Including the two I had.

Happy and Wild have way more experience than I do.  This is just what I experienced. 

This was a real concern for me when we bred our brittany since we trial her.  The trainer made it very clear that after the litter was whelped, the pups would get weened at 3 weeks, and my female would be put right back to work.  He said that he's seen too many good females have a litter of pups, and decide they like being moms more than field trial dogs.  That's why he weens so quickly after the litter is born.  After my females litter, she had the best fall trial season of her career, so she didn't slow down any. But I was very concerned about it.

[Happy Gilmore]

the best Chesapeake in the Nation and one which will be in the hall of fame was running in the 8th series of the National Open shortly after whelping a litter.

There are all sorts of wives tales out there and most are just that. Some stuff you hear from trainers is the worst too.  Few good trainers have time to deal with puppies. They are on the road, traveling to trials or moving about training grounds all year.

[AspenBud]

I have had only two female labs. Both I had spayed at around 6 months or so. I just asked the vet what he thought and went with it. When I was looking for my first pup I talked to several guys who had been urged to let the dog have one litter.
Without exception each told me that they wished they had not because after the litters the dogs hunting drive was not there as it was before. They hunted but without the strong drive.

On the other hand I know many who spayed with no litter and there dogs hunt like crazy. Including the two I had.

Happy and Wild have way more experience than I do.  This is just what I experienced. 

This was a real concern for me when we bred our brittany since we trial her.  The trainer made it very clear that after the litter was whelped, the pups would get weened at 3 weeks, and my female would be put right back to work.  He said that he's seen too many good females have a litter of pups, and decide they like being moms more than field trial dogs.  That's why he weens so quickly after the litter is born.  After my females litter, she had the best fall trial season of her career, so she didn't slow down any. But I was very concerned about it.

Apparently these dogs didn't get that message...

http://www.hifivekennels.com/dams.htm

https://harddrivingbev.wordpress.com/

I don't know about when the pups were weened but these dogs, and there are many many others out there, didn't slow down a bit.

[jetjockey]

You only hear about the ones that didnt slowdown.  I know of several females that were never the same after their first litter, and I know several that haven't been affected at all.  Since there are few females that trial to begin with, you don't hear about the ones that fade out.   I was fortunate, my female didn't slow down after her first litter.  But there are many that do.