Loading hardcast.

[aer212]

I have some questions about loading hardcast lead. To start, I have never loaded lead for a handgun and would like to know some dos and don'ts. I'm loading for G20 sf with a KKM barrel, 180gr hardcast lead with no gas check. I found load data for Longshot for 180 cast bullets and decided to use that reduced. Max load was 9.5 so I started at 7.5 and loaded up to 8.5. I fired the 7.5 through a chronograph loaded one at a time and checked the barrel for leading after each shot. The loads averaged 1100 fps and some lead showed in the barrel after the first shot. Subsequent shots showed more lead each time with about 2 inch streaks from the chamber end. Now my question is, how much lead in the barrel is acceptable? In my opinion, that was too much but since I am shooting lead, I assume that no matter what, there will be some lead in the barrel. Is that correct? I cleaned the barrel and loaded some more at 6.5grs and 7grs and fired those. 6.5 was 1000fps and 7 was 1050fps. These also left some lead in the barrel but no streaking. Do I need to back the load down more? Is there a fps limit for lead bullets? Also another question, I bought the KKM barrel because KKM says it is a fully supported match chamber. No matter what I have shot in it for ammo, the cases come out bulged near the case head. I thought the fully supported chamber was supposed to not allow the case to bulge as it is fully captured? Is something wrong with the barrel? I cannot resize these fired cases and still use them, running them through the sizing die scrapes brass from the case at the bulge and leaves a sharp edge near the case head. Thanks for the help.

[biggfish]

Are you using manufactured or casting your own? Are they pre lubed? Without a visual I can't say much for excessive leading. I run lead semi-wadcutters in my single action army and see very little leading after 100 rounds. Many factors come to play how well the barrel is lubed, how well the bullet was lubed, the bullet design all can contribute to leading. I can't say if problems will arise as I've never had any more than would from a jacketed soft point left behind. More importantly is can you clean it out.

[jrebel]

Tag....gonna start loading for my 454 and would love to gain some info.

[300rum]

Years ago when everyone shot lead the common thought was to keep the bullet around 900fps or so.  Leading depends hardness of the lead, speed of the bullet and also (to a degree) the type of powder.  You are running these bullets too fast.   

To me, no leading is acceptable, it is hard to clean and affects accuracy.  I prefer to buy lead bullets with the JM Hi-Teck coating (Leatherhead Bullets among others).  With the coated bullets you get a much cheaper bullet then jacketed but no leading.

The slight bulge is normal.  You want to make sure that you are "over-caming" in the down stroke of your press.  Lots of people screw their die in until it touches the shell plate.  What you want to do is screw it down a bit further after touching so that the die is encasing the web.  For me it is more of a "feel" but somewhere around a 1/4 to a full turn should be right.  A Redding G-Rx die would solve your problems.  I will pm you, I have a brand new one that I don't need.  The G-Rx die pushes the brass completely through the die and eliminates any bulge. 

You should pull your barrel and use it as a case gauge on both your sized, unloaded brass (to make sure that your dies are set correctly) and your loaded round.  Once your dies are set you don't need to case gauge empties any longer.  If your round passes while case gauging using your barrel and your OAL and crimp are right, the gun will run.       

[300rum]

After reading your original post once again....

Don't worry about the KKM barrel, KKM makes a great barrel.  If you don't like it and want to sell it, your original barrel will work just fine with the Hi-Tek coated bullets. 

[aer212]

Are you using manufactured or casting your own? Are they pre lubed? Without a visual I can't say much for excessive leading. I run lead semi-wadcutters in my single action army and see very little leading after 100 rounds. Many factors come to play how well the barrel is lubed, how well the bullet was lubed, the bullet design all can contribute to leading. I can't say if problems will arise as I've never had any more than would from a jacketed soft point left behind. More importantly is can you clean it out.

A local guy is casting these. They are lubed but not gas checked.

[aer212]

Years ago when everyone shot lead the common thought was to keep the bullet around 900fps or so.  Leading depends hardness of the lead, speed of the bullet and also (to a degree) the type of powder.  You are running these bullets too fast.   

To me, no leading is acceptable, it is hard to clean and affects accuracy.  I prefer to buy lead bullets with the JM Hi-Teck coating (Leatherhead Bullets among others).  With the coated bullets you get a much cheaper bullet then jacketed but no leading.

The slight bulge is normal.  You want to make sure that you are "over-caming" in the down stroke of your press.  Lots of people screw their die in until it touches the shell plate.  What you want to do is screw it down a bit further after touching so that the die is encasing the web.  For me it is more of a "feel" but somewhere around a 1/4 to a full turn should be right.  A Redding G-Rx die would solve your problems.  I will pm you, I have a brand new one that I don't need.  The G-Rx die pushes the brass completely through the die and eliminates any bulge. 

You should pull your barrel and use it as a case gauge on both your sized, unloaded brass (to make sure that your dies are set correctly) and your loaded round.  Once your dies are set you don't need to case gauge empties any longer.  If your round passes while case gauging using your barrel and your OAL and crimp are right, the gun will run.     

I thought the point of a fully supported chamber was no bulge? I talked to KKM and they said send it back and we will send you a new one, they thought maybe the feed ramp got cut in too deep. Anyways, they seemed to think that it shouldn't be bulging. Also, I'm using a forster press so no camming over. The rounds shoot fine in the gun, that's not the problem. However, I wish I would have seen your post earlier as a couple days ago I ordered the same G-rx die. Finally, if the new barrel doesn't solve the bulge problem I will just use the G-rx die and keep going. Thanks for all the help.

[aer212]

This is what I am loading.

[300rum]

Was the brass that you shot through the KKM new?  Or, was it once shot through another barrel possibly?  The Grx is another step but it will take care of any possible problem.

Years ago when everyone shot lead the common thought was to keep the bullet around 900fps or so.  Leading depends hardness of the lead, speed of the bullet and also (to a degree) the type of powder.  You are running these bullets too fast.   

To me, no leading is acceptable, it is hard to clean and affects accuracy.  I prefer to buy lead bullets with the JM Hi-Teck coating (Leatherhead Bullets among others).  With the coated bullets you get a much cheaper bullet then jacketed but no leading.

The slight bulge is normal.  You want to make sure that you are "over-caming" in the down stroke of your press.  Lots of people screw their die in until it touches the shell plate.  What you want to do is screw it down a bit further after touching so that the die is encasing the web.  For me it is more of a "feel" but somewhere around a 1/4 to a full turn should be right.  A Redding G-Rx die would solve your problems.  I will pm you, I have a brand new one that I don't need.  The G-Rx die pushes the brass completely through the die and eliminates any bulge. 

You should pull your barrel and use it as a case gauge on both your sized, unloaded brass (to make sure that your dies are set correctly) and your loaded round.  Once your dies are set you don't need to case gauge empties any longer.  If your round passes while case gauging using your barrel and your OAL and crimp are right, the gun will run.     

I thought the point of a fully supported chamber was no bulge? I talked to KKM and they said send it back and we will send you a new one, they thought maybe the feed ramp got cut in too deep. Anyways, they seemed to think that it shouldn't be bulging. Also, I'm using a forster press so no camming over. The rounds shoot fine in the gun, that's not the problem. However, I wish I would have seen your post earlier as a couple days ago I ordered the same G-rx die. Finally, if the new barrel doesn't solve the bulge problem I will just use the G-rx die and keep going. Thanks for all the help.

[MP123]

This is what I am loading.

It doesn't look like they're lubed?  Is there anything in those grooves?  Kinda hard to tell in the picture...

[boneaddict]

Thats what I was thinking

[aer212]

They are lubed, it has a very slight reddish tint. Gets my fingers kinda sticky.

[seth30]

They are lubed, it has a very slight reddish tint. Gets my fingers kinda sticky.

Is he running them through a resizer after he casts the lead?  Is he quenching them in water?  I make lead bullets for my 357 and I found after adding gas checks the leading issue went away.

[aer212]

I've been told he quenches them. Yes they are sized, measures .401.

[ndcasla]

I cast a lot of my own bullets, .38/.357, .41, .45acp, .308, .45-70, and some .577, mostly from "range lead".
It comes out on a Brinell hardness scale about 14-16 hardness. I will drive these bullets up to just under 1000fps without a gas check. I will go up to about 1800-2100fps wit a gas check. I have some leading issues, but nothing that is not manageable. I use a lube I get from Canada called Dragon Lube.

[theleo]

Another question is do you know what size your barrel is? A general rule with lead is that the bullet should be sized .001 to .002 larger than your barrel. Undersized bullets can leave leading from the gas being able to cut around the side of the bullet by the bullet being undersized. Hard lead compounds the issue by the bullet not being able to slug up the base to create a better seal.

[jasnt]

Another question is do you know what size your barrel is? A general rule with lead is that the bullet should be sized .001 to .002 larger than your barrel. Undersized bullets can leave leading from the gas being able to cut around the side of the bullet by the bullet being undersized. Hard lead compounds the issue by the bullet not being able to slug up the base to create a better seal.

   Slug your barrel by using a wooden dowel to push a bullet threw your barrel.  I've found most barrels need a larger cast bullet than cal size. If your bullets are too small it will lead no matter what you try. This should be step one with any cast bullet in any gun

[aer212]

Alright, thanks for the help. I'll see if I can get around to slugging it today.