Interesting broadhead grouping problem

[Band]

I'm finding that my arrows are grouping very well with fields points but poorly with broadheads even though they are spin testing well.  The interesting thing is that each arrow is repeatedly hitting the same spot with broadheads but one arrow always hits high right, another low left, another high left, etc.  I have an idea of the problem but I would be interested to know what is on your short list of considerations to resolve such a situation.  What do you think?

[jpharcher]

Are the blade to fletch alignments the same orientation?

[BABackcountryBwhntr]

turn the knocks and I bet that fixes the issue.

[Fullabull]

Field points grouping well does not mean your bow is tuned. Download the Easton tuning guide and follow that. When you can swap a field point and BH and they are hitting the same place. Then test all arrows with BH's, if any are off get an arrow squaring tool and make sure the arrows are square. I have saved many arrows from the target only pile to hunting arrows by doing this.

[sled]

Tagging this.  Interesting.  This stuff always interests me.

[RadSav]

We used to do a visual shooting display using a well tuned bow, proper spined arrows, proper FOC, good helical offset vanes and a mix of broadheads from perfect alignment to almost 5 degrees bent.  At 80 yards they all grouped together.  Spin testing is good for the mind, but proper tuned bow/arrow is good for flight.

Have you numbered your arrows to see if the same arrow is doing the same thing each time?

Likely a combination of things such as weak spine plus cheap Easton all carbon arrows, tight string fit plus imported nocks, or cam tune plus creeping.  Can also be mental when shooting multiple spot targets like Vegas or 5 Spot.

[Band]

Have you numbered your arrows to see if the same arrow is doing the same thing each time?

Yes.  Arrow #1 is grouping well with multiple shots, arrow #2 is grouping well with multiple shots, and so on.  But arrow #1's grouping is in a different location that arrow #2's grouping.

Likely a combination of things such as weak spine plus cheap Easton all carbon arrows, tight string fit plus imported nocks, or cam tune plus creeping.

"Cheap Easton carbon arrows" is what I suspect might be the culprit.  I think they are the right spine for my setup, and as I said, they all group together when using field points, but I wonder if the quality of these arrows is such that they don't all flex the same way which causes the broadhead to catch air resistance differently and fly off course?  If that is the problem, could lining up the broadheads all the same (i.e. one blade straight up) help resolve the problem?  I could buy a better set of arrows but I'm not sure I want to do that unless/until I find out for sure that is the problem.

My bow setup:
Diamond Outlaw bow set to 60 lbs. (high speed rating)
Trophy Ridge Revolution (fall away) rest
(340) Easton Carbon Raider arrows with 4" offset vanes
D-loop, mechanical release

[D-Rock425]

I'd blame the bow.

[RadSav]

Have you numbered your arrows to see if the same arrow is doing the same thing each time?

Yes.  Arrow #1 is grouping well with multiple shots, arrow #2 is grouping well with multiple shots, and so on.  But arrow #1's grouping is in a different location that arrow #2's grouping.

Likely a combination of things such as weak spine plus cheap Easton all carbon arrows, tight string fit plus imported nocks, or cam tune plus creeping.

"Cheap Easton carbon arrows" is what I suspect might be the culprit.

I think in that case BABackcountryBwhntr is probably right.  Even arrows with spline issues can be made to group together if you rotate nocks.  Just takes time and patience.

Of course arrow rest choice could make it difficult if not a fall away.

[pd]

RadSav & others, this stuff just baffles me.  I have had a bow for < 1 year, and the whole arrow issue is too much for my feeble mind.  Is "tuning a bow" something that I can just hand off to an expert, and get it done in an hour or two?  In such case, I would pay to have it done, to have someone show me the right spine, etc.

For those of you who are really passionate about your bows and arrow selection, that is great, but I am not sure I have time for this.  My question is simply, "Can money solve this problem?" 

(By the way, I am in Kitsap county, and good, quality bow shops are not even close.)

[Band]

I really like this bow but with so many possible variables to broadhead grouping problems I may ultimately end up going back to my other bow that has no such problems.  But first I'll try rotating the nocks to see if the situation improves.  Thanks, guys, appreciate the help as always.

[Jake T]

RadSav & others, this stuff just baffles me.  I have had a bow for < 1 year, and the whole arrow issue is too much for my feeble mind.  Is "tuning a bow" something that I can just hand off to an expert, and get it done in an hour or two?  In such case, I would pay to have it done, to have someone show me the right spine, etc.

For those of you who are really passionate about your bows and arrow selection, that is great, but I am not sure I have time for this.  My question is simply, "Can money solve this problem?" 

(By the way, I am in Kitsap county, and good, quality bow shops are not even close.)

I wouldn't think so.  Part of tuning your bow is tuning it to you and all the little nuances you do when shooting.  Could be things you aren't even aware of.  Somebody else could get you close but it's always better to do it yourself.

[nw_bowhunter]

turn the knocks and I bet that fixes the issue.

How much are you suppose to turn the knocks?

[RadSav]

turn the knocks and I bet that fixes the issue.

How much are you suppose to turn the knocks?

You are generally trying to get the odd arrows to move over to the arrow that is grouping closest to your field points.  So, say your field points and #1 broadhead arrow are shooting at 12:00, your #2 broadhead is at 3:00, #3 is at 6:00 and your #4 is at 9:00.  You would take your #2 arrow and place it on the string, then take a Sharpie and make a mark at 3:00 on the shaft.  Then rotate that mark so it is located at 12:00.  Similarly #3 you would rotate a 6:00 mark to 12:00 and #4 would rotate a 9:00 mark to 12:00.

There will be plenty of fine tuning to do after doing this, but it should get you very close.  Often times close enough for government work hunting   Usually your field point arrows are exhibiting the same basic variations just to a much smaller degree.  If you are not a tournament class shooter you likely will not notice it with the field points.  But when the broadhead goes on and the spline orientation variances are magnified by the planning surface of the blades...then you notice it.

This is why, even with top quality arrows, it is a good idea to number each arrow.  A fine point Sharpie is usually all it takes to mark a light colored vane or a wrap.  Then as you practice make note of where each numbered shaft is impacting consistently.  BUT...it is important to shoot that arrow at different spots to make sure the variance is not a mental deviation by optical spot orientation.

[stromdiddily]

 

I would add that if you're going to shoot broadheads and field points at the same spot...shoot the broadheads first