Snoqualmie Ranger District may close recreational shooting? Action Required!

[netcoyote]

So many issues going on here, it could take a book to go over them all.

When my kids were young, I took them up to the Greenwater corridor to shoot. Used to be a lot of places to safely shoot and we rarely ran into anyone else up there. Back then there were far fewer people in the Puget Sound area, and far fewer cabins and houses up near FS land. Slowly, the population of the area increased and more and more roads were either decommissioned or left closed due to lack of maintenance. More people crammed into smaller spaces never bodes well for the outdoors. Combine that with the general lack of personal responsibility and land ethics in the general population, a government that prefers to spend money on "diversity" and other fluff programs rather than focus on it's land management charter and you have the dilemma we have today.

I became more apprehensive of using any of the popular shooting areas and now rarely use any public land for shooting and will pack my guns and leave if anyone else shows up and thinks they can just pull up and start blasting next to me. Too many irresponsible crazies out there. Had one guy actually ask me if I minded if he shot his AK over my truck where my son and I were shooting.

Since I don't really see any reduction in the population of the area and have to believe that it will be several generations before a more responsible outdoor ethic breaks out in the general population (good luck with that), I just don't see a safe, rational, low cost solution. FS funds have been gutted for other political agenda purposes, opening more shooting sites as some suggest would only open the FS and land managers to lawsuits when the inevitable "accidents" occur. If areas are shut down, since there is less funding for patrolling the areas, the irresponsible shooter are going to keep shooting anyway and only the responsible people will be adversely impacted. Since anti-gun sentiment is all the rage now, I could envision a time in the near future when shooting will be banned anywhere near large population centers. That would certainly include the I-90 and Greenwater areas.

In the mean time, I'll just continue to work on trails and clean up garbage as I've done since I retired and hope that my work will make some positive impact on someone in some small way. At least it keeps me out in the woods.

[cowboycraig]

Sent an email.

What is with the low life thugs that leave a mess? Makes me wonder of MDA goes out there and dumps their trash.

But have no doubt the next phase will be "no hunting on public land". Isn't like that hasn't already been pushed.

Almost have to agree no shooting on public land might be better than a-holes leaving shot up water heaters.

Craig

[Knocker of rocks]

Makes me wonder of MDA goes out there and dumps their trash.

Whats MDA?

[cowboycraig]

Makes me wonder of MDA goes out there and dumps their trash.

Whats MDA?

Moms Demand Action.

[cowboycraig]

I emailed and got a positive email back. Sounds like this isn't a done deal, and Liberty may prevail. Does sound like this is mostly a "creating a dump on public land" issue.

[bracer40]

It seems most of our reactions have been about the trashing of sites used for shooting. While I agree some/most of these sites have been trashed, I'm curious how many of those that commented spent any time to read the written concerns of the homeowners from the link in what I think was the OP's post.
They're pushing for a ban of target shooting for what they describe as safety issues. In their site they list specific examples of bullet holes in homes among other safety concerns such as fires started by shooting at aerosol and propane canisters.
I am definitely opposed to further land closures BUT if it was my house at risk of getting hit or burned  I would feel differently.

[cowboycraig]

It seems most of our reactions have been about the trashing of sites used for shooting. While I agree some/most of these sites have been trashed, I'm curious how many of those that commented spent any time to read the written concerns of the homeowners from the link in what I think was the OP's post.
They're pushing for a ban of target shooting for what they describe as safety issues. In their site they list specific examples of bullet holes in homes among other safety concerns such as fires started by shooting at aerosol and propane canisters.
I am definitely opposed to further land closures BUT if it was my house at risk of getting hit or burned  I would feel differently.

What link?

[JimmyHoffa]

It seems most of our reactions have been about the trashing of sites used for shooting. While I agree some/most of these sites have been trashed, I'm curious how many of those that commented spent any time to read the written concerns of the homeowners from the link in what I think was the OP's post.
They're pushing for a ban of target shooting for what they describe as safety issues. In their site they list specific examples of bullet holes in homes among other safety concerns such as fires started by shooting at aerosol and propane canisters.
I am definitely opposed to further land closures BUT if it was my house at risk of getting hit or burned  I would feel differently.

What link?

See bigtex's post

[trophyhunt]

It seems most of our reactions have been about the trashing of sites used for shooting. While I agree some/most of these sites have been trashed, I'm curious how many of those that commented spent any time to read the written concerns of the homeowners from the link in what I think was the OP's post.
They're pushing for a ban of target shooting for what they describe as safety issues. In their site they list specific examples of bullet holes in homes among other safety concerns such as fires started by shooting at aerosol and propane canisters.
I am definitely opposed to further land closures BUT if it was my house at risk of getting hit or burned  I would feel differently.

What link?

See bigtex's post

and after you open bigtex post, look on the right hand side of the page. You will see a incident topic.

[cowboycraig]

Is this posted over at waguns.org? Think they would get involved also, dam gun nuts

[Poke-a-Lung]

NICE EH?

[trophyhunt]

Yeah, and up the road farther is 100 times worse.

[Special T]

I shot there for my buddies bachelor party. We picked up a bunch of trash and I felt like i should have brought my Lawn Rake. Mostly tho it was fairly safe because it was shooting in to a clear cut hill side.

[cowboycraig]

Maybe we should have a hunt wa grill and shoot party. I would take a pickup truck full to the dump.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[bigtex]

The "main" argument this group is using is not littering but rather public safety in the stray bullets, the unsafe and illegal targets (such as propane tanks), etc. Have there been accidental deaths in this area? Yes there have been. Littering is essentially the second point they are using.

One issue I have with this group is they always cite a state regulation (WAC 332-52-145) which says you must shoot in an area with an earthen backstop and say that people on the USFS lands always violate the regulation. One problem, WAC 332-52-145 is a DNR regulation that only applies to DNR lands, not USFS lands. This group has actually posted signs in the area saying you must follow WAC 332-52-145, when in fact WAC 332-52-145 does not apply on lands not managed by DNR.

My opinion is that public lands should remain open for shooting or for any other legal activity. If there are people littering and not cleaning up their mess then get law enforcement to do their job, that's what we pay them for. It's already against the law to litter, and people break the law, what good will it do to outlaw legal people from shooting? Better to enforce the existing laws to solve the problem! Hunters can help with this by reporting unlawful acts and helping clean up existing messes.

Who is to do the enforcement?  USFS has lost funding for approximately 300 LEOs nationwide over the past 5 years. The Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie NF is the second most visited NF in the US and has seen it's LE staff dwindle from 6 about 5 years ago to three now. About 15 years ago the North Bend and Enumclaw Ranger Districts merged to create the Snoqualmie District, the former Enumclaw District could easily have 2 LEOs but only has 1 position and that is currently unfunded and the area is covered occasionally from the North Bend LEO who also has to cover the Skykomish area (also vacant) as well. About 7 years ago the Pierce County Sheriff's Office removed it's Resident Deputy position from the Greenwater area (because of $). So who do you want sitting at the shooting areas watching for litterers? WDFW? WSP?