legal ?

[tgomez]

U need evidence in a court of law, either physical or testimonial. But what do I know? I only study criminal justice 5 days a week for the last year at Spokane Community College. And by the way I've made honor roll for all 4 quarters. If your going to slam wardens, atleast know what your talking about.

[Blacktail Sniper]

U need evidence in a court of law, either physical or testimonial. But what do I know? I only study criminal justice 5 days a week for the last year at Spokane Community College. And by the way I've made honor roll for all 4 quarters. If your going to slam wardens, atleast know what your talking about.

No offense intended by what I am about to say, but while you have "studied it" in a classroom for the past year, I lived it in the real world outside the "Polly Anna" world of academics for over 20 years.

While the letter of the law says innocent until...the reality of it really is far different.  Especially in the area of game violations.  The common thread amongst the game department seems to be along the lines of, "If we got you this time, how many times didn't we get you?" Therefore you are very unlikely to get away with just a warning...

Take foreinstance the WDFW seizing a weapon, or any property for that matter. While there is a process to go through, why should an "Innocent" person have to anything to get their property back before they have had their day in court over the original charge?

RTSpring went through this same thing a while back, was several threads on it, and he has commented in this thread about how "innocent" you are considered during the process.  Take his warnings to heart, you don't want to ever be in that situation, either by design or accident.

Not trying to slam you or your future profession, but just be mindfull, things presented in the classroom are seldom what they are outside in the real world...

Good luck, hopefully you get to where you want to be!!

[tgomez]

I never said there wasn't a bad apple in the bunch. That's part of the reason I want to change peoples perception of peace officers and wildlife officals in general. If you didn't need evidence my friend than I could theoretically call a game warden and say I saw you shoot a deer today in your truck then drive away. But what really happend was I saw you at Safeway and I didn't like the way you took my parking spot, so I took down your licence plate and gave that as info. Now magically your booked, done deal. Sorry, but this is where you need the evidence. 1.RecoveredBullet/fragments?
2.Rifle?
3.Deer carcass?
Look what I'm getting to is this, people automatically want to give wardens a bad wrap because of our fellow hunters being jealous of our success, or either being "BLOOD THIRSTY FOR THAT 10 POINTS."  I've meet a few stern wardens myself in my 20 years of hunting, but I have meet a few very helpful and friendly ones as well. And you could say the same for any proffession right? Thanks for your opinion though, and belive me when I say I take no offense to it. As I always say opinions are like a bag of arse holes! They ALL stink, including mine. If you feel that way, I hope to meet you in the future, and help you some way when you may need it. Peace and Love, God Bless!

[j_h_nimrod]

According to the RCW "bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them.  Technically, this could mean anything attracting a bear to an area is "bait" and therefore illegal.

A game watering area. Illegal!

An orchard?  Illegal!

A berry patch?  Illegal!

A logging road?  Illegal! 

The RCW make no concession for the how or why something attracts a bear, that is baiting, according to the law.

All a bunch of cr@* in my opinion.  This is a poorly written and intentioned law mandated by an ignorant and hostile populace for misguided and incorrect reasons. 

[tgomez]

We use to cook bacon, eggs, pancakes for breakfast then head out on a morning hunt until it got too hot at high noon. Come back, and there would be bears by our camp when we returned. Tell the warden, "But sir, the bear was licking my breakfast pan!" Man it was funny to watch my brother take off after those bear up the mountain. Lol those were the days.

[j_h_nimrod]

I never said there wasn't a bad apple in the bunch. That's part of the reason I want to change peoples perception of peace officers and wildlife officals in general. If you didn't need evidence my friend than I could theoretically call a game warden and say I saw you shoot a deer today in your truck then drive away. But what really happend was I saw you at Safeway and I didn't like the way you took my parking spot, so I took down your licence plate and gave that as info. Now magically your booked, done deal. Sorry, but this is where you need the evidence. 1.RecoveredBullet/fragments?
2.Rifle?
3.Deer carcass?
Look what I'm getting to is this, people automatically want to give wardens a bad wrap because of our fellow hunters being jealous of our success, or either being "BLOOD THIRSTY FOR THAT 10 POINTS."  I've meet a few stern wardens myself in my 20 years of hunting, but I have meet a few very helpful and friendly ones as well. And you could say the same for any proffession right? Thanks for your opinion though, and belive me when I say I take no offense to it. As I always say opinions are like a bag of arse holes! They ALL stink, including mine. If you feel that way, I hope to meet you in the future, and help you some way when you may need it. Peace and Love, God Bless!

That's all fine and dandy, but in practice having someone call in a violation is entirely different than a gamie making a stop or doing a check and citing some perceived violation. Once you are cited you now have to prove your innocence because the citation is the perceived proof of guilt. My few experiences with game officers have been mixed, most positive but enough with guys on a power trip that are looking for anything they can make into a citation when there is no reason to think otherwise.

[tgomez]

Some people just suck, and yes SOME abuse the power they are givin. I do know people who have been charged with game violations, but Im not gonna slam the entire profession for it. There is still policies you must follow. All I know is I read and follow the law 100% of the time. I am teaching my young man how to do the same. I have never had a violation, and never will have a violation because I make double sure im double safe and legal. I live by a code, "Do the right thing, at the right time, for the right reason."

[CAMPMEAT]

He's NOT baiting bears that you know of, I'd hunt it all day long..

[grundy53]

The WDFW officer at my hunters safety class said  "I like writing tickets" 

We had a gamie from Duvall tell us that ALL hunters are breaking the law.  And it was his responsibility to figure out just which law we were breaking.  That's one heck of a way to go about your job, don't you think?  An hour later he gave up searching our vehicle, checking our bows and wasting our time.  As he left he told us he didn't want to see us up there again.  What?!?

In that case I guess we were guilty until really guilty!

Another time up Stevens Pass back when there was only a one bear limit I took the wife bear hunting after I had tagged out.  Gamie and Gamie junior stopped us on the road headed in to our spot.  Both badgered the wife for over half an hour.  Saying things like, "You can't really shoot that gun, can you?  Just admit you are just along so your husband can kill a second bear.  You know that .257 Roberts is not a lethal weapon for hunting bear, we should confiscate that right here right now!..."  The wife to this day remains mad about that stop!

No doubt in my mind that if we had a bear in the truck I would have been found guilty of shooting it somehow!


To be fair - While these King County and SnoCo harassments are just a whisper of the many similar run ins we have had, our bad experiences have really only been in the Westside between Hwy 2 and I-90.  Gamies around Lake Wenatchee, Colville, PeEll, Crab Creek, Klickitat, Vancouver, Winston and Cougar have been rather outstanding.  The guy out in Klickitat spent a lot of time with me making sure I knew exactly where the res boundary was since my map was marked wrong. And he didn't do that to keep me out of trouble.  He did that because he thought I would have better luck finding turkey there.  Because of that gamie I now have a killer turkey spot in Klickitat!

But the reality of guilty until proven innocent is very real today.  Of the people I know who have been wrongfully charged in this state there was zero investigation before being found guilty by the officers.  Each and every one was a simple case of wrong place/wrong time.  And in each of those cases there was clear evidence and credible witnesses to the fact the officers made a mistake.  It was not until a check was written to a hot shot lawyer that any investigation was conducted.  Not one single penny of those lawyer costs were ever reimbursed!  If that's not Guilty until proven innocent, what is?

Though it sure would be nice to be a young know it all and live in a world where fairy tales were true

I bet I have met that game warden in Duvall that you speak of. Met him a few. Times. A real unpleasant guy. Had one real bad run in with him. He definitely doesn't shed a good light on his profession.