Is a 3x restriction good?

[boneaddict]

It was the best we will ever see Jonathan in regards to the Muley population in Eastern Washington, specifically referring to the Methow as reference, but figuring the Entiat wasn't too different. 

[bobcat]

Of course, another big factor is that hunters are much more efficient now than in the 70's. Rifles that shoot accurately at 1/2 a mile, rangefinders, GPS, affordable high quality optics, 4 wheel drive vehicles/ATV's, hunting forums on the Internet, etc.

Not to mention almost zero predator control now compared to in the 70's when trapping and hound hunting was legal.

[JLS]

Do deer really care how many points they have? Do the does count points on the bucks when evaluating potential mates? Does it matter that there are mature two point bucks for any reason other than we can't shoot them and if we could they won't score well?

I have read a few articles that discussed a topic similar to this and they basically said antler growth is a sign of health as well as gene quality. Besides the hunting aspect, I just don't like the idea of a prolonged antler restriction rule because it eventually will effect the overall make up of the herd. When done in the short term, the effects are minimal at best and should be phased out quickly but the longer you keep the restriction and keep letting the two points walk and breed, the longer term effects it has. I will see if I can find the really good article that I read a while back about this. Does a better job talking about the science and biology behind it.

Makes perfect sense but it seems that it would be a slaughter if it were "any buck" 

why would it be it wasn't when it was that way back in the 70's and 80's so why would it be now?

It would be.  Anyone that hunted the Palouse back in the 80s knows exactly what I'm talking about.  You were lucky to see an antlered buck.  A 3 point was huge.

The 3 point minimum is merely an restricting factor to allow SOME escapement of juvenile (nearly all yearling) bucks.  Without it there would be units that would have almost no escapement of bucks.  I'm not saying it's good or that it's bad.  The only viable alternative would be to use limited permits to provide the same amount of escapement.

[boneaddict]

Yep, and will probably be the next step as soon as management can figure out a way to put as much money in the coffers. 

[grundy53]

In my opinion, loss of suitable habitat and lack of predator control are the two biggest factors.

[csaaphill]

Lol!

Apples versus oranges.  (70s versus now)

A lot more branched antler deer make it with the restriction.   you have a lot more potential for seeing a buck now. 
I've seen a lot of different versions, or studies of different models.  It just depends which side you vote for.  I choose deer.  Believe it or not, I like them. Lol

Habitat, wolves, people, equipment, disease, you can't compare now with then.  You have to manage for the future, not the past.

being agianst a restriction doen's mean your agianst deer. and no it's not apples and oranges. The question was would it be a slaughter, and no it wouldn't be since it wasnt then either.
While you might see more buck deer doesn't mean you see more 3pt's I've been seeing the last two or more years several two pts but not very many 3pts. actually none in he mule deer family more whitetail family though.
I defence of it though at first it seemed good, but thinking they need to change it now. they said it was temporariy when they first did it not it's been almost, or over 20 years, and time for a change.
Same with the spike only restriction time to change that too.

[BGLEMIN]

Based off my experiences in Colorado, speaking solely about mule deer management, I believe the best methodology to be limited quota with no antler point restrictions. CO tried OTC with a 4pt restriction with very little success in increasing age class structure, big buck quality, or overall herd numbers.

Roughly 20 yrs back the state changed tactics and went draw only, limited quota, and no antler point restrictions.  Herd health has increased dramatically. The biggest constraint limiting herd numbers now is the carrying capacity of suitable habitat, especially on the winter range.

Bucks from all age classes and antler configurations need to be culled. In reality having more hunters punching tags on spikes and forkies has decreased the pressure on mature buck harvest, allowing a greater number of maturing bucks to become fully matured. This also pushes the herd into having a greater genetic diversity.

From a resource competition perspective, having a plethora of little bucks does not always create a surplus of bigger bucks. Truly mature muleys are very solitary, these bucks will move away from large bachelor groups of younger bucks. So the more youngsters in an area the greater the conflict and competition for forage and cover.

These are all bucks taken by friends in the last 3 years, either harvested or shot on camera in units where any buck is legal...

[nwwanderer]

BGLEMIN, thanks, will said

[SkookumHntr]

Wa does that too, it's called the desert unit, let us know how the hunting is when you get to hunt there! 

[270Shooter]

I like how Oregon does it, draw only for modern firearm and otc fir archery.

[Landowner]

The 3-pt restriction saved deer hunting in SE WA.  Forks and spikes were the common harvest before the restriction, and there weren't many of them.  The vast number of nice bucks now compared to the old days is night and day.   

Having said that, the choice of open country habitat by many mule deer seriously impacts the survival rate of mule bucks, amongst other apparent issues facing mule deer, and there just isn't many good mulie bucks here for the most part. 

[GameHunter1959]

The 3-pt restriction saved deer hunting in SE WA.  Forks and spikes were the common harvest before the restriction, and there weren't many of them.  The vast number of nice bucks now compared to the old days is night and day.   

Having said that, the choice of open country habitat by many mule deer seriously impacts the survival rate of mule bucks, amongst other apparent issues facing mule deer, and there just isn't many good mulie bucks here for the most part.

I have hunted your area (Dayton/Marengo) for 32 straight seasons. My father 53 straight seasons. I think too many people get overly focused on the 3 point restriction being the primary factor off a positive or negative affect on the area. The only benefit I see is an extra year or two for them to live. That is; IF they don't get killed by a careless hunter who thinks they saw a third point and makes a mistake. I agree with you that years ago most the deer killed were fork horns and spike. I definitely think the 3 point restriction created bigger bucks. I don't think there are more bucks in the area. In fact; less in the public hunting areas. I think they are just bigger because the restriction helps them live a little longer. I would like to see Dayton/Marengo become draw only for all weapon types and OTC for archery with a 4 point or better restriction. Cut the doe permits down.

[erk444]

Is that deer on the right in the first pic a giant spike!?

[BGLEMIN]

Is that deer on the right in the first pic a giant spike!?

It is a huge spike...here's another shot.

[erk444]

Thats one impressive spike!