Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA

[Sundance]

out

[CP]

Why does it matter?

[tonymiller7]

Let's keep this civil, what would you like to see? Personally I would like to see west of I-5, or at the least sub-categories of Coastal, Lowland, Foothills, Alpine and Crossbred

I would say the cascade crest trail, west of I-5 is ridiculous.

[h20hunter]

Leave it alone. No point in adding any further confusion, or fodder to disagree.

[tonymiller7]

Better start a mule deer purity thread too

[tonymiller7]

The only places that have cross over pretty much lay on the e/w boundary.  I-5 is so far from that it's ridiculous.  For example, you will never see a bt/mulie cross in Morton, I guess the deer running around the East side of Tacoma are Mulies or benchlegs then.

[CP]

I don’t care – pick a line – or don’t – or call them all benchlegs.  Do DNA testing if it matters to you. 

[grundy53]

I would say a line somewhere in between I5 and the PCT.

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[AKBowman]

OK, why? Seriously I am curious. My argument would be that the genetic purity becomes watered down that close to the PCT.

I would say west of I-5 is ridiculous because I could quite literally shoot a deer east of I-5 where I hunt that would be more westerly than a deer you shoot west of I-5 a bit further south where you hunt.

[AKBowman]

I would say a line somewhere in between I5 and the PCT.

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In a perfect world I would agree with that. At some point there is no chance of mulie traits and your still hunting in the same type habitat. IMO, and again this is just my personal opinion, I personally categorize the Goldendale type blackails as something other than a Columbian Blacktail. In my opinion it's similar to killing a Blacktail in North central California. Just not the same thing as a true Columbian Blacktail coming from the jungle somewhere near or west of I-5.

[fishnfur]

Sundance,
  I think the argument is fun to discuss but something of a waste of time unless we expect P&Y / B&C to care - which I doubt they will in our lifetimes.  I am in total agreement with your arguments.  People get hung up on classifying deer by what they look like to the eye and make assumptions on genetic purity based on those characteristics they see.

Certainly, we've all seen two brown-eyed parents spawn children with blue eyes.  Same with hair color, and any other traits.  It works the same in BT deer as well.  It is not hard to make a case for intermixed genes down to the foothills (same case on the other side of the mountains as well):

Example A submitted:  A BT alpine or pass-level doe that would normally migrate to the foothills with the snow could easily be bred by a benchleg buck with strong muley traits during a low snow or late snow year, especially if she came into estrous in mid-to-late October .  The next year, her buck yearling that migrates with her, and likely thereafter, will at least have the genetics to produce offspring with traits that might possibly resemble some characteristics of a benchleg type deer. 

When we see that deer down in the foothills, we consider it a pure BT because of it's location when we saw it, which is obviously incorrect in this case.  Furthermore, that animal will further pollute resident foothill BTs with it's mixed genes in the coming years, further muddying the picture, but potentially creating some wonderfully endowed bucks.

As you state, coastal deer and valley floor deer have virtually no opportunity to participate in this mixing of genes, and thus display characteristics we consider "normal" for a BT, and oftentimes results in fully mature deer that are not overly impressive by our standards.  These deer are apparently very successful in their local environments to the point that they are chosen by the local does to mate with and continue to spread those genetic traits that we consider less impressive.

So I guess, if I had to choose, I would punch a survey tab for a line drawn somewhere in the foothills.  Where that line is....   

[grundy53]

I've seen a mulie doe in the kapowsin tree farm.

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[Gobble]

Honestly, I really could care less. If its a decent buck, its going down. Also, Don't forget you also have Columbian "Whitetail" down south on the wetside to further mess with the gene pool 

[tonymiller7]

Honestly, I really could care less. If its a decent buck, its going down. Also, Don't forget you also have Columbian "Whitetail" down south on the wetside to further mess with the gene pool 

 

[Gringo31]

The fact that people feel the need to argue about this is retarded