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Poll

Keeping the other thread pure and simple, would you change this boundary line,  where to and why?

Leave it be
24 (61.5%)
Move it to I-5, westside
7 (17.9%)
Other, specify
5 (12.8%)
Other, break it up into sub catagories
3 (7.7%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Author Topic: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA  (Read 9804 times)

Offline Sundance

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Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« on: August 17, 2015, 04:09:55 PM »
out
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 03:36:03 PM by Sundance »

Offline CP

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2015, 04:11:20 PM »
Why does it matter?

Offline tonymiller7

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 04:13:29 PM »
Let's keep this civil, what would you like to see? Personally I would like to see west of I-5, or at the least sub-categories of Coastal, Lowland, Foothills, Alpine and Crossbred

I would say the cascade crest trail, west of I-5 is ridiculous.

Offline h20hunter

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2015, 04:14:02 PM »
Leave it alone. No point in adding any further confusion, or fodder to disagree.

Offline tonymiller7

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2015, 04:16:44 PM »
Better start a mule deer purity thread too

Offline tonymiller7

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2015, 04:19:37 PM »
The only places that have cross over pretty much lay on the e/w boundary.  I-5 is so far from that it's ridiculous.  For example, you will never see a bt/mulie cross in Morton, I guess the deer running around the East side of Tacoma are Mulies or benchlegs then.

Offline CP

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 04:20:53 PM »
I don’t care – pick a line – or don’t – or call them all benchlegs.  Do DNA testing if it matters to you. 

Offline grundy53

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2015, 05:26:52 PM »
I would say a line somewhere in between I5 and the PCT.

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Offline AKBowman

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2015, 11:54:40 PM »
OK, why? Seriously I am curious. My argument would be that the genetic purity becomes watered down that close to the PCT.

I would say west of I-5 is ridiculous because I could quite literally shoot a deer east of I-5 where I hunt that would be more westerly than a deer you shoot west of I-5 a bit further south where you hunt.
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Offline AKBowman

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2015, 12:01:54 AM »
I would say a line somewhere in between I5 and the PCT.

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In a perfect world I would agree with that. At some point there is no chance of mulie traits and your still hunting in the same type habitat. IMO, and again this is just my personal opinion, I personally categorize the Goldendale type blackails as something other than a Columbian Blacktail. In my opinion it's similar to killing a Blacktail in North central California. Just not the same thing as a true Columbian Blacktail coming from the jungle somewhere near or west of I-5.

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Offline fishnfur

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2015, 12:11:33 AM »
Sundance,
  I think the argument is fun to discuss but something of a waste of time unless we expect P&Y / B&C to care - which I doubt they will in our lifetimes.  I am in total agreement with your arguments.  People get hung up on classifying deer by what they look like to the eye and make assumptions on genetic purity based on those characteristics they see.

Certainly, we've all seen two brown-eyed parents spawn children with blue eyes.  Same with hair color, and any other traits.  It works the same in BT deer as well.  It is not hard to make a case for intermixed genes down to the foothills (same case on the other side of the mountains as well):

Example A submitted:  A BT alpine or pass-level doe that would normally migrate to the foothills with the snow could easily be bred by a benchleg buck with strong muley traits during a low snow or late snow year, especially if she came into estrous in mid-to-late October .  The next year, her buck yearling that migrates with her, and likely thereafter, will at least have the genetics to produce offspring with traits that might possibly resemble some characteristics of a benchleg type deer. 

When we see that deer down in the foothills, we consider it a pure BT because of it's location when we saw it, which is obviously incorrect in this case.  Furthermore, that animal will further pollute resident foothill BTs with it's mixed genes in the coming years, further muddying the picture, but potentially creating some wonderfully endowed bucks.

As you state, coastal deer and valley floor deer have virtually no opportunity to participate in this mixing of genes, and thus display characteristics we consider "normal" for a BT, and oftentimes results in fully mature deer that are not overly impressive by our standards.  These deer are apparently very successful in their local environments to the point that they are chosen by the local does to mate with and continue to spread those genetic traits that we consider less impressive.

So I guess, if I had to choose, I would punch a survey tab for a line drawn somewhere in the foothills.  Where that line is....   :dunno:

“When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.”  - Will Rogers

Offline grundy53

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2015, 04:47:45 AM »
I've seen a mulie doe in the kapowsin tree farm.

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Offline Gobble

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2015, 05:58:51 AM »
Honestly, I really could care less. If its a decent buck, its going down. Also, Don't forget you also have Columbian "Whitetail" down south on the wetside to further mess with the gene pool  :dunno:

Offline tonymiller7

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2015, 09:24:08 AM »
Honestly, I really could care less. If its a decent buck, its going down. Also, Don't forget you also have Columbian "Whitetail" down south on the wetside to further mess with the gene pool  :dunno:

 :yeah:

Offline Gringo31

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Re: Boundary Line for Columbian Blacktail deer in WA
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2015, 10:12:19 AM »
The fact that people feel the need to argue about this is retarded   :twocents:
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
-Ronald Reagan

 


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