Bighorns dying

[runamuk]

Runamuk, I know there are a bunch that deny the problem as one caused by domestic sheep.  I've looked at the research and the real world examples.  There are too many examples of herds doing well, they intermingle, then they all die.  Like I said, it's like the topic of evolution.  If you choose to turn your head at where the science is pointing, you can do that.  I can say the grazing constituents are strong and like to throw a wrench in the spoke.  I have read much of what Besser has said and the issue is fairly clear.  This issue was being studied 15 years ago, and the consensus then was domestic sheep caused the problems.  We are still researching it and can forever.  The point is that when you put domestic sheep and bighorns in the same pen, the bighorns die.  I can't tell you the exact reason why, but they do.  That's all the research I need. 

Pope I am not arguing with you....Domestic sheep are the vector they carry the disease, I am however also interested in a way to either treat or solve the problem, that does not force people to quit farming.  Saying banning sheep from the west  to save bighorns is really the same as saying ban guns to prevent shootings, doesn't really make sense.

I posted above a vaccine that appears at first study to have worked in bighorns, so why hasn't and aggressive vaccination program been undertaken?
Let me answer my own question, MONEY bighorn sheep are not a priority, there is very little money to made preventing their demise, and almost no money to be made on the vaccine......so 11-12 years ago this problem could have been well on its way to being eradicated but here we sit. 

[popeshawnpaul]

To the contrary, huge amounts of money are poured into this research.  Ovis, FNAWS, and others are doing what they can.  I don't think it is too problematic to outlaw sheep in bighorn habitat.  I don't mind them in Othello, but not in Hell's Canyon.  Sheep live in very specialized habitat.  Sheep raise huge amounts of money with tags.  It just hasn't been enough yet. 

I'd love a cure, but it hasn't happened yet.  So until then, we need to do what we can.  Look to all the populations in wilderness areas free of domestic animals and they all appear stable.  Never had a problem like this in the Frank Church Wilderness...  Only near livestock do we have these issues.  I certainly don't want to be the spokesman on this issue.  I am just trying to bring some awareness to this problem and issue and put it in perspective with other issues. 

With 10,000 sheep in Hell's Canyon, we could give out 300 tags a year.  Imagine that?  Just getting this one critical habitat protected would satisfy me.

[Red Dawg]

I would say trying to give them immunizations is not the answer either. I think you would hurt or kill more than help, then you would just have to keep going. Bottom line is we are running out of habitat for everything and everything is getting screwed up. Maybe some agreement between fish& game and department of Ag can be reached to form some sort of boundary, but I would be willing to bet nothing will happen until they nearly getting to the point of getting on the endangered species list, then good luck getting them off. That is worst case but you never know.

[popeshawnpaul]

We have done a decent job of getting them out of the area.  Oregona nd WA have done a decent job.  Idaho politicians and the governor are resisting last I had looked into it.  I had also heard someone had a pet sheep in their back yard in the blues and that may have caused a lot of these issues?  I'll have to go look up the latest I heard on this issue and report it.  This is just what I recall.  I wish one of these Ovis or FNAWS guys would jump on here with set information.  I hope the issue isn't too political for them on a public site...  I think Dennis Campbell wrote something recently on the latest a few months ago that I recall reading.  I'll look for it and get some more info. 

[ramslam]

Good news is the Cougs won in overtime, bad news is I just finished a looooong post in response to this and when I hit spell check and my computer froze!  

I'm going to keep this response shorter.  

Potential for contact with domestic sheep/goats is far more serious than wolves, cougars or tribal harvest.  For Washingtonians it is an issue in Hells Canyon, Tieton, Swakane and others as well.  Further expansion of those herds will not be pursued until domestic allotments are retired.  

Reality is we are one wandering ram from a major die-off in all of our herds.  I was in on a capture a couple years ago.  We collared a young ram near the mouth of the Grande Ronde in Washington.  After release he traveled up the GR and into Joseph Creek, then back down to the Snake River, then up the Snake River through the Chesnim herd in Oregon and eventually going as far south as the Imnaha.  That fall he traveled north up the Snake, swam the Snake and settle into a ram group in the northern part of Unit 11 in Idaho.  This one ram traveled through 5 different Hells Canyon bighorn herds.  I think the same thing could happen with the Yakima river herds or Swakane, Chelan Butte, & Manson.  One cough and 90% are dead.

The legal battle with the Payette NF in Idaho and the Shirt's Brothers will likely dictate public land management policy.  Thus far court rulings have supported bighorn sheep.   Much is yet to be learned about how the disease evolves in a die-off all both sides mostly agree seperation is key.  Idaho Wool growers is well established and politics rules this game.  Outgoing Ag Secretary Mark Rey recently issued a moratorium on ALL bighorn transplants on USFS land unless extensive evidence shows no contacts with domestic sheep is possible.  This flies in the face of public policy which puts the management of wildlife in the hands of state agencies.  

I have toured Dr. Sri's research facility at WSU numerous times and if anyone is ever in Pullman I highly suggest it.  His endowed chair was mostly funded by WAFNAWS charter member Dr. Rocky Crate's estate.  WAFNAWS is a proud annual contributor and will have a great story and pics in our June newsletter showcasing Dr Sri's successful raising of domestic sheep/bighorn crossed lambs that were born this past spring.  He is studying this disease from a molecular level and is hoping to gain an understanding to transmission and resistance with the cross breeds.

The silver bullet would be a vaccine that could be administered to domestic sheep/goats that would reduce/prevent transmission.  Most collaring projects I have been on involves some experimental vaccine that is given to the bighorns with minimal results.  Ivermectin (for lung worm and scabies) and selenium are always given as well.  

In the short term I would like to see the USFS and BLM set policies with very, very liberal spatial requirements.  Like Pope said the solution to the problem does not mean domestic sheep/goat producers are driven to extinction either.  I would like to see the domestic sheep/goat allotments near bighorn habitat in Washington converted to cattle permits. There is a place for domestics.

One last thing, transmission occurs through nose-to-nose contact.  It is not air borne.  

That's enough for now.  Sorry for any bad spelling...I'm not going to risk spell check again!

[Lowedog]

I remember reading an article many years ago about the bighorn reintroduction (if you want to call it that) in Swakane, Chelan Butte and Manson areas.  In this article there was mention of an agreement that the USFS and maybe DNR made to not renew or issue any new graze permits in those areas because of this very thing.  The article talked about how those herds were wiped out by the disease contracted from domestic sheep. 

I have in the last 5-10 years or so seen domestic sheep being grazed in what I would call too close proximity to the Swakane herd and was puzzled because I remembered this article and thought they weren't supposed to be there.

Am I imagining this agrement with the USFS and DNR or was there one at one time?

-Lowedog

[ramslam]

Not to my knowledge.

[popeshawnpaul]

I am glad Glen got on here and gave us his opinion.  I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject, that's for sure.  I am passionate about it though.  I have been at the WSU research facility and seen the types of work they are doing to end this problem.  Back then, it was Dr. Foreyt leading the project.  As a tribute to that research, my avatar is a WSU research ram from the mid 90's.  Like Glen said, it's an easy fix if we just keep the domestics from sheep.  Last year they transplanted 30 sheep from Montana.  Last I had heard almost every one died.  60 others just died in Utah I believe from this problem?  From 1995-1996, 235 bighorns died in Hell's Canyon .  It has never been the same since. 

I helped with the transplant of Chelan sheep.  The Chelan sheep have been seen all the way up to Stehekin.  What happens when one pops over and drops into the Twisp/Winthrop valley and mingles with some domestic sheep?  Then he brings it back to the Chelan herd.  They give it to the Chelan Butte and Swakane herd.  Etc. 

I wish I had been able to give more of my time to sheep projects and look forward to doing more in the future.

[boneaddict]

Thats exactly where the one in Carlton came from, and he was in a field of exotic sheep.  They have multiple species.  Hung out all day with them.  Not sure if they nailed him or not.  Of course the public outcry was save the sheep, they had no clue he was a walking time bomb.  Not knowing anything about sheep diseases obviously, I can tell you about people though.  Pasturella is a lovely human bug as well. (to answer your ? Run)  immunity is alot easier to stimulate with viruses.  Has to do with your memory cells and immunoglobulin levels.  It does happen to a certain extent with some bacteria. ..but its sort of like how you never get immune to Strep Throat.  You can have it time and time again, whereas most viruses, like Mono, you can have it then immune to that strain for life.   They are getting better and better at figuring out the protiens etc, like the pneumovax.
Thanks for weighing in Doublelung and ramslam.

[runamuk]

Pasturella is a lovely human bug as well. (to answer your ? Run)  immunity is alot easier to stimulate with viruses.  Has to do with your memory cells and immunoglobulin levels.  It does happen to a certain extent with some bacteria. ..but its sort of like how you never get immune to Strep Throat.  You can have it time and time again, whereas most viruses, like Mono, you can have it then immune to that strain for life.   They are getting better and better at figuring out the protiens etc, like the pneumovax.
Thanks for weighing in Doublelung and ramslam.

Bone I understand the basic mechanisms of immunity, I was curious why domestics seem to be naturally resistant and bighorns hadn't developed resistance, ramslam seems to have answered that for me.  If I get to WSU I will have to check out the facility.
As for strep you bring up the one bacteria that I appear to be immune to LOL.... I've never gotten strep and have directly shared drinks with people who had it.  My doctors have found it curious......I did have scarlet fever as a child (which is a form of strep infection) but have never had strep throat.

Ramslam thanks that is great information. I truly knew nothing of this until POPE posted so all of my replies are essentially inquiry.  If the rams are traveling such great distances it seems it would be harder to control contact with domestics, even if domestics were removed from the Hells Canyon area.  I do like the idea of switching the leases to cattle that might actually be do-able.  Is there a specific person or dept. that a writing campaign could be directed to? 

[whacker1]

Thank You for all of the information. tribal killing of animals is a little more visible and that is why I think it receives more attention.  I was aware of this issue, but did not realize the extent of the problem until reading this thread.  I will continue to inform others of the issue, because it will require some public education before politicians will be willing to weigh in.

[bluesarcher]

One important point is being missed in the discussion that plays a critical role in Hells Canyon Management....farm flocks of domestic sheep and goats. Currently, farm flocks/4-H animals are the source of all contacts between bighorns and domestics in the Blue Mtns.  Every herd in the Blue Mtns uses private lands extensively, except whats left of the Tucannon.  The only way to prevent this contact is through education of the landowners, which only partially works, or county ordinances.

The federal land administrators will be forced to prevent contact within a year or two, leaving this issue at the forefront of recovery.  I do not believe there is a county in eastern WA that will ban private landowners from owning domestics, but until a vaccine is developed, this is who people should be talking with.

To help out...Contact the Asotin County Commissioners.  They control all of the major issues for washington sheep in Hells Canyon.  We have to start somewhere.

[ramslam]

I am going to attach an article that is scheduled to run in the WAFNAWS summer newsletter.  Unfortunately, the current newsletter was at the printer when this story was submitted.  It is a long read but really is informative.

Domestic sheep grazers continue to fight back. The Shirts brothers grazing sheep on the Smith Mountain allotments west of Riggins, Idaho, filed a 500+ page lawsuit with Boise federal Judge Lynn Winmill. It contained six complaints, part of which dealt with U.S. Forest Service process, and the remainder dealing with biological issues. The Judge threw the suit out, in a 3 page opinion, not based on the merits of the lawsuit, but the fact that it was not submitted on time (and that ruling has been protested). The domestic grazers, probably with elected officials’ help, got U.S. Undersecretary of Agriculture (The U.S. Dept. of Agriculture oversees the Forest Service) Mark Rey (a political appointee) to put a hold on all bighorn transplants on all National Forests until the bighorns (but not domestic sheep) have been tested for disease. This was done by creating a Memorandum of Understanding-MOU- between the Forest Service and a sister agency-APHIS-Animal Plant Health Inspection Service. Note two things here: 1. The MOU has not been signed (as this is written in late December); 2. The WAFWA-Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies (including Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife)-has strongly protested Rey’s action as the rights of individual states to manage resident wildlife is very much threatened here, and goes against federal law and policy. Rey also wrote a letter to Abigail Kimball, head of the Forest Service, outlining the new policy. Whether or not these actions become US Forest Service policy is uncertain, due to the change in Administration occurring in January 2009. Also, the ASI-American Sheep Industry-filed a lawsuit in federal court over this issue, but with a different judge from Lynn Winmill. That lawsuit has since been moved to Winmill’s court, but no action has been taken yet.

Continued uncertainties. The AOI’s-Annual Operating Instructions for the Mick Carlson Allotment east of Riggins, Idaho, have not yet been crafted for 2009 by the Payette National Forest (PNF). What the PNF will do is unknown at this point. The PNF also determined that there should be no grazing on this allotment in 2009, but was directed by letter from Mark Rey (who else?) to allow Carlson to graze it. The Forest Service is seeking other, unused allotments for Carlson’s use.

Making Progress. 1.Idaho Governor Butch Otter apparently has softened his anti-bighorn stance somewhat, as there has been a significant collaborative effort (8 meetings since August) between ASI-the American Sheep Industry, the Wild Sheep Foundation, the Nez Perce tribe, and U.S. Idaho Senator Mike Crapo’s office. These entities are working very hard to reach common ground, which is a difficult task at best. Recognizing the collaborative effort and the importance of bighorns, the governor is reportedly leaning towards disbanding his second Governor’s Task Force on management of bighorn and domestic sheep. 2.The Idaho Fish and Game Interim Management Policy for Bighorns, which included lethal termination of bighorns which strayed into domestic bands, has not been implemented that I know of. 3. The Salmon River Bighorn Study, crafted by the Nez Perce tribe and with financial help from several cooperators has seen GPS radio collars installed on many bighorns, by biologists working from helicopters and jet boats. The results from the first year indicate beyond doubt that bighorns, especially rams, use Mick Carlson’s allotment at least 11 months per year, putting to rest Forest Service doubts and uncertainties about whether bighorns used the allotment. And the radio collar data also indicate rams swim the Salmon River at will, much as rams do in the Snake River. 4. Dr. Sri Srikumaran and his staff crafted a research proposal which would explore the role of Mycoplasma species in the deaths of bighorns. The proposal lacked about $11,000 from its goal of $70,000. The Nevada Bighorns Unlimited, Reno Chapter very graciously fleshed out the proposal with a $10,700 grant. 5. The Forest Service has been actively searching for unused domestic sheep allotments to which Mick Carlson and the Shirts brothers could be redirected. There may be problems with this, however, due to regulations which forbid permittees from subleasing their grazing privileges to other grazers.




More to follow...

[Lowedog]

I have to wonder where these special interest groups that sue the USFS at every turn over timber sales and trail building etc. are on the whole grazing issue.

The USFS is bombarded by these people with law suits at every turn when it comes to cutting down a tree or disturbing a plant but I have never heard of one of these groups sueing over grazing permits.

There is about a half mile trail the USFS wants to build near Lake Wenatchee that has been held up in court for several years by lawsuits because it may disturb grizzly habitat?!?!  The same area they allow the sheep herders to graze through!  Ever see an area after the sheep go through?

-Lowedog

[ramslam]

Your Help/Getting Involved. For those of you interested, you can access the SDEIS itself at the following websites:

   www.fs.fed.us/r4/sawtooth/arevision/revision.htm

There are six alternatives for bighorns, described in detail. Only two are significant: 7H and 7E. 7H, the Payette’s preferred alternative, would eliminate domestic sheep grazing in all currently occupied bighorn habitant surrounded by a 9-mile wide buffer. Domestic sheep would be allowed to graze outside of that, on the current domestic sheep allotments. Alternative 7E is stricter: It would eliminate all domestic sheep grazing on the entire Payette Forest.

Until very recently, the latest final date for public comments was January 2, 2009. This date has been extended to March 3, 2009 at the written request of several organizations, including the WSF and the Nez Pierce Tribe. This is where you, bighorn hunter/sportsman(woman)/lover of bighorn country/photographer/back packer, come in. The only way bighorns are going to get what they need and deserve on the Payette is for you to let the Forest Service know how you feel about this situation, and what you, as a taxpayer and owner of federal lands, want done for bighorns. What happens on the Payette will set the standard on what happens on all National Forest throughout the West, and may well have an impact on what happens on BLM lands, as well. The bighorns need grass-roots support from you! That means individual letters or emails to the Payette. Form letters are all put in a pile and counted as just one comment, when the comments are counted, so individual responses are by far the best. 

Here is who you write letters to:   

Payette National Forest
Attention: Bighorn Sheep Comments
800 Lakeside Avenue
McCall, ID 83638

Here is the email address for comments : payettebighorn@fs.fed.us

Following are some tips, regardless of how you contact the Forest Service: Tell where you live; why you care; and give any personal experience, education or professional expertise that informs your opinion (that includes watching and photographing and hunting them, among other things).

Points you could include in your comments: 1. The overwhelming majority of published science supports the concept that disease transmission from domestic to bighorn sheep is a serious threat to bighorns. 2. Urge the Forest Service, if it adopts Alternative 7H ( the existing bighorn habitat plus a nine-mile buffer) NEVER to reduce that area in size, based on future monitoring; 3. Stress that separation between species is crucial, regardless of how it is done-refer to the Payette Principles described in the Summer issue of Wild Sheep 4.; Or go with Alternative 7E, which eliminates domestic sheep grazing entirely; 5.. Urge the Forest Service to find domestic sheep allotments outside bighorn habitat, even if it means in other Forests in other states; 6. Given their propensity to travel long distances throughout the Hells Canyon and Salmon river drainages, management of bighorns on the Payette affects Oregon and Washington as well as Idaho. 7. Hells Canyon contains some of the finest bighorn habitat in this country, and bighorn populations would expand tremendously, given the opportunity. Keep in mind, please, that regardless of which way the Forest Service rules on this issue, there will be lawsuits, and the decision may be made in federal court. And each and every comment made by both sides will be considered in the Court’s deliberations, so it is VERY important that you write, and soon, in favor of the bighorns.


I hope this helps clarify the situation and what's being done.  I encourage everyone that reads this thread to take 30 minutes and send in a comment.

Glen A Landrus
WAFNAWS President