School me on 300 Blackout

[bknilvr00]

I'm curious about this round for hunting deer, as well as throwing a can on it while doing so. I'm gna need a rifle before next season for my wife to use, so something manageable caliber and size wise is a must. I figure an AR with adjustable stock is a shoe-in. I'm also a huge fan of the potential for not having to wear ear pro while in the field. And before someone grills me for not wearing it and going deaf, I wear muffs when I duck hunt. The action is usually heavy enough to warrant doubling up plugs and muffs. After getting ear blasted three years ago my right ear rings constantly. Problem is when I'm rifle hunting, muffs and plugs bother the snot out of me. So if suppressed, do I not need to worry about my hearing

[h20hunter]

 

[emac]

How far will she be shooting at deer. I have a 300bo and there is major drop after 200 yards. I don't have a can on it but I've been told they are super quiet. Mine has hardly any kick and its light. I tend to carry my 6.8 more often cause of the range factor. I got a coyote at 428 yards with it last year and a deer at 300 yards a few years ago. It doesn't have any kick either. There are so many good calibers in the ar platform now days.

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[carpsniperg2]

There is 2 different things to look at. One when you are running sub sonic bullets most will not expand at sub sonic velocity's and have pretty poor killing power with no expansion. They will be almost silent with a suppressor. It's pretty amazing. Second if you are running standard velocity rounds they will be louder but still fine to shoot with a suppressor and without hear protection. The 300 blackout is not a fast round. I run 125 ballistic tips for my high velocity rounds and at a close range they will kill a deer just fine. For a sub sonic there are certain companies that make bullets that expand at sub velocity's. Yet the drop of a bullet running at sub sonic speeds is huge!!!! your range would be very very very close if you were going to attempt to use them.

I have a good bit of experience with this cartridge in both AR rifles and bolt guns. There are by far better choices for her. 7mm-08 or 308 would be great. Both can be loaded down to be very quiet and kill way better then a 300blk. The 300blk has it's place and we have killed a few critters with mine.

One other thing. If you don't have a suppressor already you better get on it. I have a few friends that are at 13 month wait times for the initial suppressor. I got one back in 3 months a few months back but I think that's because I already had stuff setup with my others.

[bullfisher]

I think its kind of a turd myself. If you go with a comfortable can length barrel, it will be worse.

[yorketransport]

Back in the old days when it was called the 300 Whisper ,  I used to shoot one out of 10" Contender. It's not a power house but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer with one at a reasonable range. In fact I shot my deer last year with a 30 Herrett at about 85 yards  with a 130gr TTSX out of a 10" Contender and he was DRT. The 30 Herrett from a 10" barrel is just a touch behind the Blackout from a 16" barrel.

Run a 125-130gr bullet at 1900-2000fps through a suppressor and you'd have a quiet and efficient mid range (<150 yard) deer killer.

Andrew

[JJB11B]

Get an M1 Carbine and a set of Peltor's 

[bknilvr00]

I appreciate the responses you guys have given me so far. I'm just kinda looking into it. I haven't started buying build parts yet. I do believe I have talked her into doing a his and hers AR build though. So I just need to settle on calibers.
When you guys say close range is that under 200 yards? 100? 50? I'm fairly comfortable shooting to take a poke at 200, but she is a novice shooter. So a long range tack driver isn't necessarily needed.

[h20hunter]

Think about this also.....you got a kid...probably another in the next few years.....shooting time and hunting time may take a hit a bit. Sadly, been there, done it, know how it goes. So, when looking at a buy/build I think you have to look at versatility. Lets take the 6.8 compared to the .300. Wider range of bullet selection, can go up and down in powder loads to manage recoil and velocity. A pair of muffs or basic plugs can be put on/in the ears prior to shots...sometimes. How much will the gun get used if limited in range? How much will it get used if it can be a yote/bear/deer/elk gun from close in out to X yards? I think the limits of the .300 BO on range make it a novelty, a good novelty, but one that may be used then set aside. Also, the can. Like Carp said....over a year wait and that is now. Me...I'm going with a caliper like the 6.8, maybe a .243...and buying/building something that is going to get used for years to come. Just the fact that it is a semi auto will absorb much of the recoil from the smaller calibers....say anything under a 30. Then, it all comes down to noise and that can be managed by a little prepping ahead of time.

[300rum]

I would stay away from the AR-15 type platform and go with a DPMS LR type AR10 build.  On my build the rifle doesn't move and I can watch the bullet impact the target.  My 10 year old daughter can shoot it easily out to 450 yards, not that I would necessarily let her shoot at an animal at that range but she can ring the gong easily.

My rifle is set up with a full size BCG, an adjustable gas block, and a very good comp (hearing protection required).  Buy a pair of Howard Leight Impact Sport muffs and put them in your pocket. 

I have been kicking around the idea of putting a "can" on it but I see no reason to load sub-sonic so I would have to wear hearing protection anyway.     

[Yondering]

I would stay away from the AR-15 type platform and go with a DPMS LR type AR10 build. 

The OP asked about a cartridge that fits the AR15, not something 308-size to fit the AR10. Your suggestion means more weight, more recoil, and definitely louder.

To the OP - don't sweat the caliber decision too much. In an AR15, the difference between a 300 Blk and 5.56 is just a barrel and gas tube; you can always change it later. Bolt, mags, etc are all the same.
6.8 is certainly a valid choice too; ammo is cheap and it's a modest improvement in power over the 5.56. It will require specific mags and a 6.8 bolt though, just FYI. I'm using ACS mags, they seem OK.

Your goal of hunting suppressed without ear protection is perfectly reasonable. I usually still wear plugs for extended shooting, like in a ground squirrel colony, but often shoot my suppressed ARs without ear proteciton too. If running full power, suppressed, all of those rounds sound about the same to my ears. The 300 may be slightly quieter, but it's not a big difference, the supersonic crack is most of the noise anyway. All of them are right at the edge of my comfort level for multiple shots; for just a shot or two while hunting they are fine.

[Yondering]

One other comment - contrary to a lot of claims online, a suppressed 300 Blk, even with subsonics, is not "nearly silent" or "quiet as a suppressed .22". The action noise in an AR is significant, and subsonic loads that cycle an AR action are louder than you'd expect from watching youtube videos.

[lamrith]

One other comment - contrary to a lot of claims online, a suppressed 300 Blk, even with subsonics, is not "nearly silent" or "quiet as a suppressed .22". The action noise in an AR is significant, and subsonic loads that cycle an AR action are louder than you'd expect from watching youtube videos.

Yes sound at the shooter is louder than to the sides in the AR platform.  Pretty good pop from the action on each shot.  Stand a few feet away to side and it is much quieter..

Also realize that an AR (unless you do a specific light weight build) will be heavier than a bolt gun.  May not seem important, but after a few days/miles of hiking it can add up.  My AR I just hunted with was 9.75#+ammo and after 6days hiking mtns you notice the extra weight.  Bolt gun would be lighter and quieter if shooting subsonics and the can...  That said I prefer the AR platform so that is what I hunted with.

300blk is a viable hunting round you just need to be conscious of it's limitations, and choose appropriate ammo/shots. 

[Fl0und3rz]

Back in the old days when it was called the 300 Whisper ,  I used to shoot one out of 10" Contender. It's not a power house but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer with one at a reasonable range. In fact I shot my deer last year with a 30 Herrett at about 85 yards  with a 130gr TTSX out of a 10" Contender and he was DRT. The 30 Herrett from a 10" barrel is just a touch behind the Blackout from a 16" barrel.

Run a 125-130gr bullet at 1900-2000fps through a suppressor and you'd have a quiet and efficient mid range (<150 yard) deer killer.

Andrew

I don't have skin in the game, nor do I have direct experience, but I have done a little research.

The claim to fame for the 300 BO seem subsonic and the AR platform, although at subsonic velocities, I wonder what benefit it would be as a general hunting platform over what some others listed here (such as the above) would provide.


There are many out there with regrets or at least dissension over the utility of the 300 BO.

Here's one such write up and a bit of a subsequent walk back.

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/05/22/300-aac-blackout/

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/03/19/anti-300-blackout-soapbox-downsized/


That said, don't let me dissuade anyone from a new rifle purchase.

[h20hunter]

Good reads.

[Yondering]

The claim to fame for the 300 BO seem subsonic and the AR platform,

That's only half of it. It's real "claim to fame" is as a dual-use cartridge, that can duplicate 7.62x39 (AK) ballistics and also run quiet subsonic loads from the same platform. People who try to put it in a "subsonic only" category are missing its versatility.

[bknilvr00]

I appreciate all the responses. Good food for thought. I really like the AR platform. That's why I'm not really looking at bolt guns. 308 would be awesome, but that immediately takes the price over 1k. I'd like to build one or perhaps two myself, because it's more than just buying a gun. My wife is getting into hunting, and I figure if she is involved in building the weapon she uses, she will be more familiar, comfortable, and confident with it. 300 seemed to be a ringer on caliber, because it has the performance on paper, but also the swap is as easy as a barrel change. Provided you don't have cycling issues etc....  Now 6.8 is also an option. But now it requires more caliber specific parts. So cost changes a bit. Seems like I'm in a damned if you do damned if you don't position.

[carpsniperg2]

Cycling issues can be a real pain when getting a blackout up and running. You will have the best luck with a shorter gas tube. Some have even been even putting pistol length gas tubes on 16" barrels and have been having good luck with them. The 300 with a carbine tube is still ok but on some light loads they can be goofy.

I have put probably 1000 rounds through several guns, both semi auto and bolt guns. With subsonic, loads the action cycling in a semi auto is louder then the shot with a suppressor. In a bolt gun it is truly nearly silent. If you are running a semi auto and just look at the noise coming from the bullet going down range it's nearly silent as well. The clank of running a semi auto is not the factor you look at when it come to hearing protection and being able to run suppressed

[Fl0und3rz]

The claim to fame for the 300 BO seem subsonic and the AR platform,

That's only half of it. It's real "claim to fame" is as a dual-use cartridge, that can duplicate 7.62x39 (AK) ballistics and also run quiet subsonic loads from the same platform. People who try to put it in a "subsonic only" category are missing its versatility.

True. The point was that the 7.62x39 does 7.62x39, but cheaper.  It doesn't do subsonic (conventionally), and it doesn't do AR that well from many accounts.  That's where the 300 BO stands out, IMO.

[superdown]

I am somewhat interested in a 300 blackout in a single shot pistol platform. Does anyone have success stories and or pictures of game taken with the round?

[bknilvr00]

Ok so I have done more reading. Anyone rocking a 6.5 grendel AR? Thoughts?

[carpsniperg2]

Yes and its a better choice then the 300blk for hunting.

[h20hunter]

Done. Just have Carp get you an upper for your current shooter. Done.

[lamrith]

Yes and its a better choice then the 300blk for hunting.

Probably one of the best AR calibers imho.  You have a hunting legal caliber in most states, very mellow recoil, 6.5 bullets have phenominal BC so they fly farther and flatter than 308.  Fits in Std AR15, in fact it is only bolt (not full bcg), barrel and mags to convert.  You CAN get away with AR mags though some people have feeding issues, so just grab a few 6.5 mags and you are set.  People have taken elk to 400yrds with the caliber, but like anything you need to do the research and understand round limitations and make proper bullet/shot choice.  The 6.5 as a bullet has been taking large game for centuries, but you have to make sure it has energy on target.

This is not a subsonic oriented caliber though like 300blk is designed to do.

Could just make things easy on yourself, Just get both like I did!

[Goshawk]

Besides the energy, the other real trick is matching bullets that will expand at the 6.5 velocities.

What bullets have you found that give good expansion performance at these lower velocities?

[Biggerhammer]

Besides the energy, the other real trick is matching bullets that will expand at the 6.5 velocities.

What bullets have you found that give good expansion performance at these lower velocities?

Holes kill things period! At 496 yards with a 120gr Nosler Ballistic tip from a 6.5 Grendel 16" carbine. I have watched the bullet pass completely through a mature mule deer. Center punched the lungs, the buck walked backward for 4 or 5 steps after the hit and dropped. Done deal.

Same deal at 302 yards on another buck, bang Flop! He slightly raised his head after he dropped and got another through the throat.

[JDHasty]

I have three AR15s.  A Competition H-Bar, a Match H-Bar and a Remington R15 that is very light and very accurate.  The first two are misery to tote in the field and the third one is a bit better.  I hunt predators with it though because of double call ins.  I would not hunt deer with one by choice and that goes triple for an AR10.

As for the round, it is OK in the hands of an expert tracker.   

[lamrith]

Besides the energy, the other real trick is matching bullets that will expand at the 6.5 velocities.

What bullets have you found that give good expansion performance at these lower velocities?

Not that hard to figure out, know the velocity the rounds open at, many popular ones are 1800ish if I recall correctly (450yrds with my setup), the 129ABLR is 1300 (800yrds with my setup)..  Metal projectile hitting living flesh and bone at over 1000fps.
As Biggerhammer said, put it where it belongs and go fill your freezer.
Pretty much every firearm has significantly more energy than archery gear at impact.  MODERN archery equipment is only putting out KE in the 70-80ft/# range.  And the old traditional gear that produces significantly less energy has been taking game for centuries.  placement placement placement.  Take out both lungs and you have a dead animal that will not go far if at all.

As for AR hunting, not as bad as some make it seem.  They are no heavier than a bolt gun depending on set-up.  My AR with HEAVY glass and mount is 9.75#.  The gun itself with just iron sights though is 7.4# which is right in line with many bolt guns.

[JDHasty]

"As for AR hunting, not as bad as some make it seem.  They are no heavier than a bolt gun depending on set-up.  My AR with HEAVY glass and mount is 9.75#.  The gun itself with just iron sights though is 7.4# which is right in line with many bolt guns."

They are miserable to carry in the field compared to a bolt action, lever action or a single shot. It is due to how they are configured and sometimes the weight.  "Not as bad..." kind of sums it up for me, they are tolerable IF I am getting value added and only when I am getting value added by choosing an AR.  For the most part, unless I am predator calling a I just simply don't care to use an AR because they are not as easy to pack around in the field all day at the ready as is a conventional rifle or carbine.  If I am hauling it in and setting up that makes an AR a good choice for me, but for my purposes that is the only situation that I can think of where I would not MUCH rather be using a good bolt gun in the field. 

As for the effectiveness of the round?  It is marginal at best, IF you are an expert tracker it is probably OK.  It is not going to ever be a round that delivers reliable massive internal organ destruction and as a person who has seen blacktails shot through both lungs with a 12 ga slug go a hundred yards I would not recommend it for hunting in western Washington where heavy brush and heavy rain make a good HEAVY blood trail a necessity.  A deer with a 30 caliber entrance wound and no exit wound that goes a few hundred yards has a pretty good chance of not being tracked and this round simply does not have much energy and therefore terminal performance of the bullet is going to be very dependent on what range you shoot the game at.   

[Biggerhammer]

There's 20 plus AR chamberings other than .223/5.56 plenty capable of taking game at distance?

[JDHasty]

There's 20 plus AR chamberings other than .223/5.56 plenty capable of taking game at distance?

A 30 Carbine is capable of taking game at distance.  Is a reliable big game caliber?  No absolutely not.  Yes it is effective at close range, but is it a reliable big game cartridge?  No. 

There are MUCH better options for deer hunting than most every round that the AR15 is capable of being chambered for.  There are MUCH better options for a big game hunting rifle or carbine than an AR10. 

[JDHasty]

Besides the energy, the other real trick is matching bullets that will expand at the 6.5 velocities.

What bullets have you found that give good expansion performance at these lower velocities?

Holes kill things period! At 496 yards with a 120gr Nosler Ballistic tip from a 6.5 Grendel 16" carbine. I have watched the bullet pass completely through a mature mule deer. Center punched the lungs, the buck walked backward for 4 or 5 steps after the hit and dropped. Done deal.

Same deal at 302 yards on another buck, bang Flop! He slightly raised his head after he dropped and got another through the throat.

Anyone who is shooting at big game at 496 yards with a 6.6 Grendel has no business being in the field hunting big game animals period. 

[JDHasty]

"MODERN archery equipment is only putting out KE in the 70-80ft/# range.  And the old traditional gear that produces significantly less energy has been taking game for centuries.  placement placement placement.  Take out both lungs and you have a dead animal that will not go far if at all."

Hogwash!  Shoot a field trip through both lungs of a deer and it is more likely than not that it will cover a LOT of ground before it dies.  Archery big game arrows are tipped by razor sharp broadheads that cut a hole close to or exceeding an inch in diameter.  Archers do not rely on expansion of a projectile to cause shock and to expand a bullet, they rely on massive hemorrhaging and a bullet that does not expand may, or may not, accomplish sufficient hemorrhage to result in an animal expiring before covering a lot of ground.   

[fly-by]

An 18" barrel and heavy duty suppressor takes a .308 down to about 135db.  I wouldn't shoot it all day, but would not be overly concerned about a small number of shots on game.   I have a couple of .300 blackouts and a couple of Ar-10s,  but hunt with an Ruger American Predator 18" .308 and Silencerco Specwar.  I find it much easier to carry in the field than any of the ARs.

[Wea300mag]

Let's get back on subject and stay there. Thanks

[Biggerhammer]

Besides the energy, the other real trick is matching bullets that will expand at the 6.5 velocities.

What bullets have you found that give good expansion performance at these lower velocities?

Holes kill things period! At 496 yards with a 120gr Nosler Ballistic tip from a 6.5 Grendel 16" carbine. I have watched the bullet pass completely through a mature mule deer. Center punched the lungs, the buck walked backward for 4 or 5 steps after the hit and dropped. Done deal.

Same deal at 302 yards on another buck, bang Flop! He slightly raised his head after he dropped and got another through the throat.

Anyone who is shooting at big game at 496 yards with a 6.6 Grendel has no business being in the field hunting big game animals period.

Opinions may vary and ours definitely do. You drive yours and we'll drive ours.

411 yards, 16" 6.5 Grendel 120gr Nosler Ballistic tip, put it in there and they die. Alexander barrel I have since reworked the rifle for him. . Make over carbine second photo.

[JDHasty]

Taylor Knock Out Values were developed by John Taylor as a way to quantify the ability of various cartridges to ensure HUMANE ONE SHOT KILLS when an animal is hit in the vitals.

Here is a site that will calculate them for you.  This methodology was developed after having personal, first hand, experience shooting THOUSANDS of big game rifles. 

http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.asp

There are other methodologies, but this one is one of the most widely accepted. 

Thornily is another widely accepted methodology

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/thornily.htm?v1=120&v3=.243&v2=2500

One or two, or even a few dozen animals are not sufficient to make generalizations from.   

[Biggerhammer]

Taylor Knock Out Values were developed by John Taylor as a way to quantify the ability of various cartridges to ensure HUMANE ONE SHOT KILLS when an animal is hit in the vitals.

Here is a site that will calculate them for you.  This methodology was developed after having personal, first hand, experience shooting THOUSANDS of big game rifles. 

http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.asp

There are other methodologies, but this one is one of the most widely accepted. 

Thornily is another widely accepted methodology

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/thornily.htm?v1=120&v3=.243&v2=2500

One or two, or even a few dozen animals are not sufficient to make generalizations from.

Keep reading....

[Biggerhammer]

All in the trade.. Some are drifters.

[grundy53]

Knock it off.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

[fly-by]

Subsonic, suppressed, in an 8-10.5" barrel .300 BLK has a niche.  The modest case capacity and larger bore make it efficient out of short barrels which, when suppressed, still end up fairly short.  The trajectory with subs is very rainbow like and the energy is low.  There are bullets designed to expand at subsonic velocities such as the Lehigh 194 grain and others.  If you plan to shoot subs exclusively you can use a pistol can which is noticeably shorter, lighter, and more versatile than a rifle can. 

If you want the flat trajectory and foot pounds energy of a supersonic load there are choices with much better ballistics than the .300 BLK that fit in an AR-15 sized platform.   These rounds generally need a longer barrel to run efficiently.  You will also need a rifle can and it still will not technically be hearing safe.   However, the Blackout does fine out to a couple hundred yards with 110-130 grain supers even out of short barrels if you want the flexibility of subs and supers in one rifle or pistol.

The attached pistol has a 10.5" barrel and is wearing a Silencerco Specwar.


 

 



 

[Biggerhammer]

Dead is dead!